Debates of March 16th, 2000

Health Care

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

As the Minister of Health knows, the NDP believes that Bill 11 in Alberta is in violation of the Canada Health Act. The minister has been reluctant to come to this conclusion. We do have some legal opinions on this matter which we are willing to table with his co-operation after question period.

I ask the minister, if in his final analysis he does not agree with these legal opinions and with us and comes to the view that in some legal way the Canada Health Act is not being violated, is he prepared to change the Canada Health Act so this threat to medicare that Alberta is now posing will be eliminated?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the member knows I have not been shy at all in speaking about Bill 11. I went to Calgary last week and I said it is not the right thing to do because it will not help with the problems we face. Private for profit medicine in Alberta has been proven to have longer waiting lists, higher costs and there are issues about quality of care.

The issue of the Canada Health Act depends on what the bill is. Right now the premier is talking about amendments. We have not seen regulations. It is not even at second reading. Let us wait and see what happens in the legislative process.

In the meantime it is the wrong thing to do from a policy point of view and we have said so.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is two weeks since the bill was tabled. It is four months since the premier revealed what he intended to do.

Can the Minister of Health give the assurance to Canadians that if the process he is hoping will work in Alberta does not work, that he is prepared to use the Canada Health Act, or to strengthen the Canada Health Act as is recommended by a resolution coming before the Liberal convention this weekend, in order to make sure that what is happening in Alberta does not become a death sentence for medicare?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I can give the hon. member and the House the following assurance. We will do whatever is necessary to protect the principles of the Canada Health Act and to protect medicare in Canada. If the hon. member has legal opinions he would care to share with us, we would be happy to have them.

In the meantime, let us work together not only to discourage private for-profit medicine, which we think is wrong, but to strengthen medicare in Canada. Let us work together to renew medicare for the 21st century.

Lobbyists Registration Act

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. The Lobbyists Registration Act, which is enforceable by the RCMP, demands that all lobbyists register with the registrar. Yet the Prime Minister's friend, Mr. René Fugère, carries on his activity lobbying different departments and never bothers to register.

The Prime Minister told the House that when he realized there was something wrong at CITEC he picked up the phone and called the RCMP, and rightfully so. Why has the Prime Minister or the Minister of Industry not picked up the phone and called the RCMP on René Fugère?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the information concerning allegations that Mr. Fugère had not been registered and had lobbied was passed to the RCMP by the registrar, which is the appropriate way that this should be dealt with.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, violating the Lobbyists Registration Act is very serious and a conviction results in fines of up to $100,000 or two years in prison.

According to the minister, they have been in touch with the RCMP. What I would like to know is has the minister informed the RCMP that René Fugère lobbied for two hotels in the Prime Minister's riding? Did he tell the RCMP that he lobbied for HRDC for funds for a sawmill in the riding of Champlain?

What we would like to know is what information does the RCMP have and when can we expect an answer back?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, of course the RCMP will conduct its investigation. It will deal with the results of that investigation with prosecutors from the Department of Justice in the normal course.

I do not expect that they will be consulting with the hon. member on what they should do, but you can be assured, Mr. Speaker, that the normal course of justice will be followed.

Human Resources Development

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, access to information documents show that the Department of Human Resources Development was requested to prepare an explanation of an alleged misappropriation of funds connected to the $6 million TJF grant to Iris Hosiery in Montreal. That was in June 1998.

Can the minister please tell the House the nature of this alleged misappropriation and the government's response?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what I can say is that in the case of Iris Hosiery, 1,440 employees are now working there who probably would not be without this relationship that includes Government of Canada money, private sector money and, again, the acceptance of the Government of Quebec.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, of course what the minister leaves out is that it was supposed to create 3,000 jobs for that money.

Let me quote from the access document. It says:

Please verify whether or not this is the first time that we heard about the misappropriation of funds and what have we done/are doing about this investigation?

That was two years ago. The minister said she wants to be transparent. Here is her chance. Has the minister referred this matter to the RCMP and if not, why not?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member makes reference to the 3,000 jobs and that would have been the investment from the government of $8.1 million. When we discovered, due to certain complications, that not many jobs had been created, the investment from the Government of Canada was reduced to $5.9 million.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 1996, the Council for Canadian Unity received $8.4 million from Human Resources Development Canada to create jobs. Its rate of success was 30%. Worse yet, it is estimated that the council made $8 million in profits.

Can the minister tell us where the money went and what it was really used for?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. member is talking about a program called Experience Canada. Yes, indeed it is a very important undertaking that encourages young people across the country to find employment opportunities in another part of the country so that they can enjoy and understand other cultures. I can see why this hon. member would not like that approach.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in spite of the mediocre results achieved by the Council for Canadian Unity and its excessive profits, and in spite of the concerns expressed by its officials, the council was just given a new $9 million grant.

On what basis was the decision to give a new $9 million grant made?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can confirm that on this file the department is working with the Council of Canadian Unity to address the needs of this particular program.

We on this side of the House believe that it is an important undertaking to provide opportunities for young Canadians in any part of this country to be able to travel to another part to get work experience and experience about their country.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a $6 million grant was given by Human Resources Development Canada to the Bas Iris company, in the riding of Anjou—Rivière-des-Prairies. The owner of that company has made a $21,000 contribution to the Liberal Party.

What exactly is the connection between the two?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the democratic process allows citizens to make contributions to any political party, our party or even their party. In fact, if they would look at the record they would find that transitional jobs fund grants have gone to private undertakings that even supported that party.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, HRDC is just full of political patronage. This $6 million was dished out just before the 1997 election. This riding in fact was a pretty tight race. The garment industry came along and said “Do not do this. It will mess up the industry”.

Why was generosity to Liberals enough to overcome the complaints and concerns of the garment industry?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the focus of the interventions of my department are on individuals. In this particular case, 1,440 individuals who did not have the opportunity to work before now have the opportunity.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 1996, the Council for Canadian Unity received $8.4 million. What was the outcome? A total failure. As a reward for its poor performance, HRDC gave it $9 million in 1999.

Is there some connection between the success of the Council for Canadian Unity in obtaining funding and the presence in the equation of another friend of the Prime Minister, Rémi Bujold?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that on this side of the House we believe that a program like Experience Canada is worth the investment.

I can confirm to the hon. member that the moneys that have been provided to this program have only been expended for actual costs incurred.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is a strange coincidence in this affair.

The Vice-President of the Council for Canadian Unity is also vice-president of a company awarded a contract by the Council.

[An hon. member]

The buddy system.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Is this a repeat of the René Fugère business, but this time with Rémi Bujold?