Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to the subject of transfers and in particular the transfers to health care.
I was in my riding this weekend. I am sure many members, at least on our side of the House, go back to their ridings to talk to their constituents and are told to fix that grant situation in Ottawa; to fix that waste, that boondoggle that has been going on in Ottawa; and to fix the fact that the Prime Minister's riding gets $7 million while the provinces of Manitoba and Saskatchewan each get around $5 million and Alberta gets $3 million, 73% of which goes to the justice minister's riding in Alberta. That is not what they want their tax dollars used on.
The Liberals seem to take the tax and then think it is their money to distribute as they see fit. Their tax and spend philosophy is just not acceptable. Our critic is proposing in today's motion that the grants for HRDC and the like be frozen and that the grants to health care be increased, which is the second thing people are telling us about.
Between 1993 and the proposed 2004 budget there will be a $35 billion cut in transfers for health care. People care about that. Yes, people want reduced taxes, but they also want good first class health care. The government needs to get the message that people want to choose what to do with their money, that they want government to stay out of their business, and that they want government to stop playing politics with the grants it so readily hands out.
Basically we heard the Prime Minister say this weekend that he will be the defender of medicare. What we are really talking about is a socialized, state run 1960s form of health care. It is not sustainable. The status quo is not an option, which the health minister has said many times.
It is the Liberals who are breaking the Canada Health Act. It is the Liberals who are creating a multi-tier health care system. It is the Liberals who are using the Canada Health Act as a hammer against the provinces like some tinpot dictator would do in the treatment of lesser states.
The Prime Minister promises to maintain medicare as it is today. I do not think many Canadians want the Prime Minister to maintain what we have today. We must also remember that it is governments like this one that have created a $580 billion debt with a $40 billion plus interest payment. We put $15 billion into health care and we put $43 billion into interest payments. What is hurting our health care system more than that sort of debt, and who is responsible for it?
Let me repeat that the Prime Minister is saying he wants to maintain a 1960s socialized, state run health care system. North Korea and Cuba along with us can claim to have that sort of a system. Other countries have modernized their health care systems. They have done things to make them better, and I will mention some them.
We are now rated 23rd of 29 countries in the OECD when it comes to health care. We are in the bottom third of industrialized countries when it comes to health care. If some members who are heckling across the way today would ask their constituents what they think about their health care, I am sure that is the answer they would get as well.
It is the Liberals who have destroyed our health care system. They are the ones who are not living by the Canada Health Act. It is not an accessible system. There are waiting lists a mile long. To get to see a specialist one might wait three or four months. That is not accessible. Queue jumping is going on. Whether it it legitimate like the WCB or whether it is politicians, at least politicians from the other side, queue jumping is going on.
It is not portable. I have talked with a number of doctors who have said that they want money upfront, particularly if patients come from provinces such as Quebec. It is not fair to those people to be treated that way. It is the Liberals who are destroying and not obeying the Canada Health Act. Last year 76 items were delisted from health care. That is not comprehensive and that is not acceptable to Canadians. It is not universal.