Mr. Speaker, as we can see, when the truth is debated and spoken in the House, nobody speaks. So I would like to congratulate my hon. colleague whose speech has provided, I hope, food for thought for the government.
Little time has been allotted to each member to speak to a bill as important as this one. As my hon. colleague from Newfoundland has said, we are going to support this bill, even though we would have preferred the government to be more open on certain amendments that the Progressive Conservative Party, the real conservative party in Canada, and the other parties, proposed. We would have liked the government to have been more open. I will elaborate a little bit on three or four main themes for discussion or comments on this bill.
First, the provinces were mentioned frequently. My hon. colleague from the Bloc Quebecois raised the federal-provincial constitutional and jurisdictional issue. This has been looked into. We are fortunate in the Progressive Conservative Party to have people with a good knowledge of federal-provincial relations and the Constitution. They considered whether, from a legal point of view, the bill was consistent with the constitutional laws of Canada. The answer is yes, it is legal.
However, even if it is legal in terms of jurisdictions, because shared jurisdictions do exist, as is the case here, we have no obligation to adopt the Liberal government's way of doing things, which is wanting to control everything and then saying to the provinces “Come to see me afterwards if you are not happy with something”.
The government missed a golden opportunity to provide in the bill for much broader participation by the provinces. It forgot about that. Is overlap or duplication of the money invested in research possible? I hope not, but when people do not talk to one another, it is like when a husband and wife go out to buy Christmas gifts. If they do not talk beforehand, they might very well come back with two identical Pokemons for the same child.
In our view, it would have been wise to establish a permanent process in this bill so that the provinces and the other players in research could be partners. It is a matter of attitude and, once again, we find it most damaging even if it is legal. We would like to see the government reconsider it.
Yes, there is more money for research, but I remind members that the bill does not mention any amount. We will have to go from budget to budget to discover the amounts of money that will be made available for research.
My colleague from Newfoundland and Labrador raised the issue of patronage, of what is referred to here as the “governor in council”, who appoints a lot of people. I do not know the exact number of people the governor in council is responsible for appointing. Some figures being mentioned are 200, 300, 400, 500, 600 or even 800 people. This includes, of course, the other house. It is a lot of people.
In this case, perhaps the government could have agreed to be a lot more open in appointing members to the governing council. It would have been nice.
Why did the Standing Committee on Health not take the time to look at the list and to listen to those whose names had been suggested? Some raised the question as to why, for example, 50% of the members of the governing council could not be suggested by the provinces. There could have been a certain number for each province or for each region. Why not?
Again, it is a matter of attitude on the part of the government, an attitude that, unfortunately, is not likely to change.
It would have been nice if parliament had been a lot more involved. With this bill creating the institutes, parliament will be involved once a year and we do not know exactly in what way. The Auditor General of Canada will make his rounds and will report to the minister, who in turn will report to both houses of parliament, but nobody knows what will happen after that.
With all the scandals shaking up the government these days, it would have been nice if, while protecting the confidentiality of the research to be done, it had asked all parties to become its allies to avoid surprises. This government is beginning to have more than its share of scandals, but by involving other political parties, it could say “Look, if there are problems, it is parliament's fault and not the Liberal Party's fault”. There could have been a new way of doing things, but the government decided to keep on helping its friends.
We find that somewhat unfortunate. In the area of health and health research, which Quebecers, Ontarians and all Canadians believe is the most important, everybody could have been involved and could have worked together.
That being said, the members of the governing council will be appointed to hold office during pleasure, to use a phrase commonly found in bills. Members are appointed for three years, but during pleasure. In other words, they may be removed, if such is the pleasure of the governor in council or the Prime Minister. They will play musical chairs. It will be like a game of Monopoly where houses and hotels can easily be moved around. The membership of the governing council will be easy to change.
This was seen in government agencies. If someone dares to speak up and raise problems, they may removed in no time, unbeknownst to parliament. We find it unfortunate. Parliament has a constructive role to play. There are other very important points.
This is also a very complex bill. Reference was made to the role of the private sector. These last few years, Canada has become more open to the world because of free trade. Who was in office in the 1980s? Yes, indeed, it was a Conservative government, and this government implemented free trade. We have opened our business sectors to many more countries, particularly through free trade, but also under the World Trade Organization. It is important to bear that in mind when considering legislation.
I mentioned the private sector's role. Clause 26 of the bill provides that the CIHR may enter into a partnership with other government or corporate bodies, including private corporations. One thing will have to be monitored very closely, however, and the auditor general will certainly do so: the CIHR may incorporate by itself a corporation. When an institute is independent from the government and may duplicate itself, this causes problems. All our questions may not get answered.
I do not want to underestimate the people who will be there, but the bill states that the institute may enter into a partnership, or incorporate “by itself or with others a corporation, including a subsidiary”. It might decide to incorporate for a very specific purpose. This is dangerous, because we will lose contact with this institute.
It may also enter into a partnership with governments. I may not be a legal expert, but I was reading the bill and it does say “with any other government”. Great. May it enter into a partnership with the United States, France or agencies from these countries? Perhaps. Is this desirable? Why not? But once again, what is the quality of the parliamentarians' relationship, the representatives of those who pay taxes?
These issues would not be raised if parliament were much more involved. With regard to the private sector, we will have to look into the structure of the institute to see how royalties and patent rights will be divided. If the institute may incorporate by itself, without coming under the direct control of the auditor general, if it may enter into a partnership with the private sector or with any other government inside or outside the country, to whom will patent and licence royalties belong? These are issues we will look at over time, but it would have been important, to reassure Canadians in general, that parliament played a much greater role in this sector.
My time is up. As I said earlier, we will support this bill, a bill that is 20 years late compared to other major countries.