House of Commons Hansard #82 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was family.
Sheila Copps LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage
Mr. Speaker, in fact the department, following questions that were raised two years ago on this issue, delivered over 100 pages of documents which were relevant to the actual audit and the follow-up.
Deborah Grey ReformLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, it is nice to get the documents. Maybe it would have been good if taxpayers had got the cash back.
The grant was about boosting the no side of the referendum, as some people say, but that is not what Option Canada was about. The operations manager said, “Not a penny from the grant was spent on the no side's campaign during the referendum”. Of course that begs the question, what did the money go for? Who knows what the grant was for? Nobody knows where that money went.
For 100 pages of documents, the minister could talk about it but I would like to know why did she not track down the cash?
Sheila Copps LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage
Mr. Speaker, over a period of six months there were dozens of questions on this issue in the House by the members of the Bloc. I am happy that the Reform Party has finally discovered the questions that were asked.
Two years ago there was a very fulsome reply given not only in the House of Commons but also in over 100 pages of documents that were delivered two years ago that I guess the Reform Party/Canadian Alliance discovered this week.
Deborah Grey ReformLeader of the Opposition
Mr. Speaker, the 100 pages of documents have not cleared up the crisis. The money is still missing and the minister knows it.
Canadians deserve an answer and to know where in the world the money is. Option Canada officials are still refusing to open their books and the minister is refusing to demand an answer from them on accountability. They refuse to answer how the money was spent.
It is $5 million worth of taxpayers' money that has vanished without a trace. Regardless of 100 pages of documents, the answer has still not come forward. Is it that the minister does not care about getting to the bottom of this or does she not know where the money went and she does not want Canadians to find out where it went?
Sheila Copps LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage
Mr. Speaker, the documents included exactly where the expenditures went.
Val Meredith Reform South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC
Mr. Speaker, HRDC, EDC, regional development, the millennium bureau and now Option Canada spent billions of taxpayers' dollars and the Liberals see them all as one big vote-buying slush fund. But it is not just that the Liberals are spending billions of taxpayers' dollars to buy votes, they ignore their own rules in doing so.
With the millennium bureau less than 1% of the grants have been audited. Why does parliament pass laws and regulations to monitor the expenditure of taxpayers' dollars and yet the Liberal government just ignores them?
Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, some 1,100 projects have been approved for funding but only some 400 projects have been the subject of signed contribution agreements.
Until there are signed contribution agreements, no money is paid out. Even where there are signed agreements, the money is paid out in instalments pursuant to statements of worth according to the terms of the agreements.
I do not know any system where audits are carried out on projects before they even begin and before they are completed. I do not know how we can monitor projects when they are just getting under way.
Val Meredith Reform South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC
Mr. Speaker, no matter how much the government tries to spin the mismanagement of public dollars, there is one fact that it cannot avoid. Every dollar that the government spends on one of its vote-buying slush fund projects is a dollar that cannot be spent on health care or education.
Can the Deputy Prime Minister explain to Canadians why the Liberal government feels it is more important to put money into these vote-buying slush funds than into health care and education for Canadian citizens?
Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister
Mr. Speaker, we have put some $14 billion into health care, in the last two budgets. That is far in excess of the amount put into the Canadian millennium partnership fund.
Furthermore, my hon. friend in her comments is insulting groups like the Trans Canada Trail Foundation which is being supported by Canadians from coast to coast to coast, two-thirds of the funding for which comes from the private sector and other community organizations. If she wants to insult Canadians as being subject to vote buying, I do not think the rest of Canadians would agree with her. She should get up and express an apology—
Millennium Bureau Of CanadaOral Question Period
The Speaker
The hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie.
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Mr. Speaker, in the matter of the Department of Human Resources Development, day after day we try to obtain relevant and precise information from the government on its management of public funds, and we get nowhere, which is not the way it should be.
How can the Minister of Justice, who is responsible for the Access to Information Act, justify the government's attempt to shirk its obligations and to systematically refuse to release information it has, a situation that contravenes its own legislation?
Anne McLellan LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada
Mr. Speaker, as Minister of Justice I provide advice to all departments in relation to access to information. We will continue to do so.
Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC
Mr. Speaker, it is a good thing that they are being advised to follow the recommendations, because of the 57 requests we have made, some 40 are past due, and complaints are currently being prepared.
For example, with respect to the Department of Human Resources Development, the government has flooded us with 10,000 pages of documentation, but is denying us the relevant few pages in the Placeteco matter, which would explain how $1.2 million disappeared.
When will the minister understand that what is important is not the number of pages, but the relevance of the documents that must be released? This is her responsibility as the Minister of Justice.
Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development
Mr. Speaker, in the past 10 weeks alone the department of human resources has received 541 requests under the Access to Information Act. In the previous full 12 months we only received 531 requests, so they are coming in at a rate four times the norm and we are doing our best to get the information out as quickly as we can.
In addition we have released 10,000 pages that the member has already alluded to, 3,000 pages of material to the standing committee. Altogether 75,000 pages of information have been released.
Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC
Mr. Speaker, government transparency is at stake here.
We know that Option Canada is directly connected to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. This organization has managed to make $4.8 million disappear and is still refusing to act on our access to information requests. In one case we have been waiting for 195 days and in the other 225.
How can the minister of clarity, who is responsible for this group, justify such unacceptable behaviour? Is it on grounds of national security, or for the security of friends of the Liberal party?
Sheila Copps LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage
What is interesting, Mr. Speaker, is that Option Canada is subject to the Access to Information Act, unlike Option Québec.
Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC
I am going to have to ask the minister what Option Québec is, Mr. Speaker.
Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC
What kind of an answer is that anyway?
The government has systematically refused to respond to requests by the opposition, even the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, he who passes himself off as the minister of clarity, whether in connection with Option Canada or his own department, when we ask him to provide us with the opinions he has received in response to the supreme court judgment. We are told that confirmation cannot be given as to whether there is indeed such a thing or not, but if there were such a thing, we would not be given it.
How can the minister responsible for the Privy Council behave in such a way?
Sheila Copps LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage
Mr. Speaker, as I have said, what is bizarre is that Option Canada is subject to the Access to Information Act, while Option Québec was not, since it was connected to the office of the Premier of Quebec.
Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS
Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.
First the health minister ignored Alberta's privatization plans. Then he told parliament that Bill 11 should be withdrawn. Next, prompted by the Prime Minister, he said that Bill 11 should be passed. Now he has written to Alberta urging that Bill 11 be changed.
Notwithstanding the health minister's acrobatics, and in view of his newfound concern for queue jumping, can the minister tell the House how many investigations are under way in Alberta and how many patients are affected?
Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Health
Mr. Speaker, it was Ralph Klein himself who invited a comparison between Bill 11 and legislation in other provinces governing private for profit facilities.
A comparison demonstrated that in Ontario and Saskatchewan for example, those statutes prohibited the sale of so-called enhanced services in private for profit facilities. In response to the premier's invitation we wrote and pointed that out. We quoted the sections and suggested that he amend his statute, among other things, to do what other provinces have done and forbid such practices.
Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS
Mr. Speaker, I would have thought he would not need Premier Klein to invite comparisons. Those things could have been seen in the newspaper or on television for that matter.
Canadians no longer trust the minister to protect the Canada Health Act. They want answers and we want answers. I will ask the minister again, how many investigations are under way in Alberta today and how many Albertan patients are affected?
Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Health
Mr. Speaker, I can tell the hon. member that Canadians know whom to trust when it comes to health care in this country and it certainly is not the New Democratic Party. The New Democratic Party happens to believe that pouring more money into the system is going to solve all the problems.
We understand that governments have to work together to introduce the kinds of changes and improvements that are needed to make medicare sustainable in the future. With our partners in the provinces, that is exactly what we intend to do.
Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS
Mr. Speaker, Hugh Riopelle, a lobbyist and golfing pal of the Prime Minister, has admitted publicly that he lobbied various cabinet ministers on behalf of Pierre Bourque, Sr., a man who owes him money, to help broker a deal for the Louis St. Laurent building in Hull. As of today, Mr. Riopelle has still not registered Bourque as a client under the Lobbyists Registration Act as required by law.
Will the ethics counsellor or the minister call in the RCMP to investigate this cosy deal, or should Canadians accept the fact that friends of the Prime Minister continue to receive special treatment?