Debates of April 14th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that the opposition did unite in its efforts to have an independent public inquiry.

However, by that suggestion it knows full well that the auditor general has HRDC grants and contributions on his list for audit this very year. By that suggestion are the opposition parties also suggesting that the auditor general is not an independent official?

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has done almost nothing but stonewall for months now. She rejects an inquiry. She rejects revealing all the facts. She even rejects access to information requests.

Yesterday I asked her why taxpayers funded the purchase of a motorhome. She has had a day to think about it. I would like to know what the explanation is today.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite seems unaware of the fact that mobile vehicles have purposes other than that which she cited yesterday, a luxury motorhome.

This mobile vehicle was purchased to provide access to technology, information, seminars and workshops in rural areas around Strathroy. Access to computers was available as well as information on business start-up, employment training and education. It served the community from May to October 1999.

The next thing we will find out is that the member is opposed to bookmobiles.

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, for two and a half months the HRDC minister has stood in the House defending her programs as being beneficial to Canadians. Now we see how Canadians are benefiting. A select few who control the funds are receiving five figure honorariums. They are playing the stock market with Canadian taxpayer dollars, and they are buying motorhomes.

Are these the types of activities that the minister has in mind when she tells Canadians that they are benefiting from her department's funds?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it seems that this party can never get itself out of the gutter trying to pick up those projects with which there have been problems.

Canadians have benefited. In one program alone, under grants and contributions, 28,000 new jobs have been created which employ Canadians. The main thing is that with our investment of about $300 million we have leveraged $2.7 billion to partner with us, for a net gain of $3 billion of economic activity in regions of high unemployment. The people who live in those regions know that these programs are valuable to them.

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is incredible. In 10 weeks the minister's standard response has gone from “There are a few problems, but I have everything under control” to “There are a lot of problems, but Canadians are benefiting from the expenditure of funds” to “I can't answer that because of the police investigation”.

Since the parliamentary secretary cannot give us more of the specifics, can she provide us with an update? How many police investigations are there into the grants and contributions from HRDC and how much Canadian taxpayer money is involved in those investigations?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what is and what is not a matter of police investigation is the business of the police. To comment could impede the investigations, and I am sure the member opposite would not want that to happen.

Middle East

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's trip continues to make waves.

The Lebanese Prime Minister even joked that he hoped the Prime Minister of Canada would not make a gaffe in Lebanon.

Considering that a government leader went so far as to allude to several faux pas made by his guest, will the Deputy Prime Minister continue to say that the Prime Minister's inappropriate statements are of no consequence?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, again, it is very interesting to see a separatist party support the foreign policy of a united country. What a flip flop.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the preparations for the arrival of the Prime Minister of Canada in Syria are basically completed.

However, the Prime Minister had to ask his ambassador in Damascus to confirm that Syria's president would meet with him, in spite of his unfortunate statements.

Would the Deputy Prime Minister not feel more comfortable if Canadian diplomats put all their energy into making sure that Canada has its proper place in the peace negotiations in that region of the world, instead of being busy making up for the Prime Minister's gaffes and mistakes?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is only normal for our ambassador in Syria to be in contact with her Syrian counterparts. This is nothing new.

Again, on the issue of gaffes, it is interesting to see those of the Bloc Quebecois, which changed its policy of opposing our foreign policy as a united country to one of full support. What will Mr. Bouchard have to say about that?

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I urge the member to reread Hansard .

Despite the Deputy Prime Minister's assurance on Wednesday that middle eastern newspapers were not reporting on the Prime Minister's gaffes, today it seems that not only have his remarks had repercussions in the Middle East but that they have been picked up by major international news agencies.

Is the government not afraid that all its diplomatic efforts in this region will be compromised by the negative fallout from the Prime Minister's statements?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the heads of state with whom the Prime Minister has held talks have not been critical of the Prime Minister's remarks.

I am told that Prime Minister Barak of Israel publicly thanked Canada for its peacekeeping efforts in the region and that President Arafat also publicly thanked the Prime Minister for visiting the region and for Canada's support for the Palestinian people.

So, if we are talking about really important figures, leaders of countries in the region, they thanked the Prime Minister.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, some people must be very busy.

The Prime Minister's goal was to use Canadian diplomacy to create just, lasting and general peace in the Middle East. That was his goal.

Will the government agree that this goal is threatened by the Prime Minister's apparent insensitivity to the complex issues in the region, which require all international players to show careful judgment?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if we are talking about agreements, our Prime Minister has signed some very important agreements with Israel and Egypt and we are also pursuing our efforts to help the cause of peace in the region.

Once again, I thank the new federalist party, the Bloc Quebecois, for supporting our efforts as a united country.

Health

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

Yesterday, the Minister of Health indicated that his department was studying the NAFTA implications of Bill 11 in Alberta. We welcome this. We think it should have happened a long time ago. But time is now of the essence. By the time we come back from the Easter recess Bill 11 could have passed and the wall that protects Canada's medicare system could well have been breached by then.

What contingency plans does the minister have to stop Bill 11 and to stop Premier Klein from committing this act which has irreversible and national consequences?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, first, there are differing points of view on that question. The hon. member has expressed one, there are others.

The job of this government and its lawyers is to examine those various interpretations to determine which is the most sensible, and then develop policy on that basis. That is what we are doing.

The NAFTA is only one of the concerns we have about Bill 11. We think it is bad policy. We have also written to the Alberta government saying that enhanced services should not be sold for profit at a private for profit hospital.

The bill has not yet passed. Amendments will be coming before the Alberta legislature. We hope the bill, as it emerges—if it emerges—will not contain that feature.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the minister that he cannot afford to be wrong in his interpretation of the NAFTA. Time is of the essence. We cannot afford to allow the bill to pass if there is any uncertainty.

Recently we passed Bill C-20 in the House, which said that Quebec could not unilaterally separate from Canada, that the interests and rights of all Canadians must be taken into account.

Where does Premier Klein get the right to unilaterally sabotage a national social program which all Canadians value? What will the national Minister of Health do about this?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the national Minister of Health, from the beginning of this debate in November, has made it very clear that the Government of Canada will safeguard the principles of our national health care system. We have done precisely that in the positions we have taken and on the issues we have identified for the Klein government, including NAFTA.

I tell the hon. member that not only NAFTA, but the combination of enhanced services being sold at a private for profit hospital, elements of conflict of interest and overnight stays enlarging the role of private for profit hospitals at an accelerated rate are all issues that have been taken up with the Alberta government, and we will continue to do so.

Fundraising

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for International Financial Institutions.

Bank lobbyist Barry Campbell, a long time Liberal, organized a huge fundraiser for the minister last fall, raising over $70,000.

Did the minister consider the clear violation of the conflict of interest code that a fundraising event organized by a bank lobbyist for him would create?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, prior to the fundraiser I called the ethics counsellor about this issue. He said that as long as the solicitation was broadly based there would be no problem if financial institutions attended or were invited.

In spite of this, we went out of our way not to solicit institutions within my area of responsibility, and if cheques were received they were sent back and refunds were issued.

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, there is no solicitor like an old solicitor. If there was no conflict of interest, why is federal ethics counsellor actually investigating?

Barry Campbell, a friend of the minister, was a lobbyist for the Bank of Nova Scotia from May 1998 to mid-March 1999, a period when the bank mergers were under discussion and review by the government.

Why did the minister compromise the merger review with his close affiliation with the bank lobbyist representing the Bank of Nova Scotia who later rewarded this loyalty with $70,000 of fundraising?

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Let me be very clear, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Campbell is a former colleague and a long time friend.

When Willowdale's regular finance chair could not be available for the event, I asked Mr. Campbell to replace him. He did. At no point while he was the chair of our fundraising dinner did I have any dealings with Mr. Campbell in any area of my responsibility.

Human Resources Development

[Maurice Vellacott, Reform, Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, we believe that the grants and contributions mess at HRDC should be looked into by an independent public inquiry. Such an inquiry would be most effective if public servants at HRDC would be free to speak about abuses of which they have knowledge.

Why does the minister not agree that legislation protecting whistle-blowers within her department is crucial to employees divulging crucial information without loss of their jobs?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, employees within HRDC are free to come forward at any time and state what they have to tell us without fear of reprisal.