Debates of April 6th, 2000

Canada Development Corporation

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, according to the best information I have, the hon. member is not correct. The report has not been done for the period he mentioned. The Prime Minister has not received the report. I can only conclude that the ethics counsellor has not concluded his work. When he does, he will give the report to the Prime Minister who has said that he will make it public.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the Deputy Prime Minister is sitting there taking advice from the finance minister on this.

I will read from a letter that was written by Howard Wilson, the ethics counsellor. In the letter he said that the report was winding down and would be concluded on November 8. That was a long time ago.

If the Deputy Prime Minister is so sure that this report has not been concluded, then why in the world is he saying that there was no conflict and that there was no involvement from the Prime Minister's office? Why have we not seen that report? Why are we not hearing that—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have not seen the document the hon. member has been holding in his hand. I would like to see it, study it and see if he is quoting accurately from it. I would like to see if he is quoting from it in context. I think we have learned by now that a lot of what the hon. member says in the House has to be treated with a great deal of skepticism.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, here is another document, just to show the seriousness of this issue. It is an interoffice memo from Connaught Laboratories, the subsidiary of CDC. The Minister of Finance was on the board of directors at that time. The memo is dated 1983. It says “In view that Connaught's blood products are not yet registered in most countries, nor do we have heat-treated products, it is essential that we capitalize on every inquiry that we may receive”.

In other words, Connaught Laboratories was trying to sell a product, which would not be allowed in the United States or Canada, abroad. This was during the time the Minister of Finance was on the board of directors of the CDC.

Will the Prime Minister be able to assure us that these kinds of memos from Connaught Laboratories are part of this—

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the ethics counsellor will be releasing his report in the very near future. I have asked, and I understand that all pertinent documents will be made available as part of that report.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister was on the board of directors of CDC because of his international expertise. This memo is entitled “International Sales of Factor H” which is the blood product used by haemophiliacs.

The memo says “For this reason, we need your urgent confirmation of quantities which will be available for export as of September 27 of 400,000 units for Iran and another for Spain”. In other words, Connaught Laboratories sold products in 1983 that it knew full well were tainted blood products.

Did the Minister of Finance know about this when he was on the board of directors—

[The Speaker]

The question as stated is out of order.

Health

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health has announced that he is prepared to move on a pharmacare plan.

I assume that the announcement that he is prepared to move on pharmacare means he has held discussions with the Quebec Minister of Health Marois.

Can the minister give us a progress report on the discussions he has had with Mrs. Marois?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, as far as pharmacare, and the entire area of health is concerned, I must begin by emphasizing our intention to respect the jurisdiction of the provincial governments. The provision of health services is, naturally, a provincial responsibility.

At the same time, we have a constructive role to play, under the Canada Health Act, in supporting the provinces' efforts to develop innovative approaches.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that was not the point of my question. If I understand correctly, the minister side-stepped the question because he did not hold any discussions with Mrs. Marois.

I am rather surprised that he says he is prepared to move on pharmacare when six provinces have such plans.

How can the minister tell us that he plans to move on pharmacare, wishes to collaborate on it, is prepared to set up such a plan, when he has not even deigned to hold discussions with the Quebec Minister of Health? Is this the minister's idea of an enlightened partnership?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

A few days ago in Markham, Ontario, I tried to raise a wide range of important matters relating to health, including pharmacare.

Unfortunately, the provinces—including Quebec's Mrs. Marois—refused. They only wanted to talk money.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in an area as serious as pharmacare, if his intent is noble, as he says it is, if he wants to provide a new service to Canadians, would the Minister of Health not be well advised to proceed as his status and position dictate?

That means consulting those responsible and then telling us whether he will proceed, since he will be ready to do so. Is he not doing it backwards by assuming the right to do it himself without consulting others?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I totally agree with the hon. member. We must consult, we must work together, that is clear. I am prepared, starting tomorrow, to meet my counterparts to discuss the matter.

A few days ago, in Markham, I suggested that we spend time on such a discussion, but that was rejected. I hope I will have the opportunity in the coming weeks to speak with Mrs. Marois and the other ministers of health in Canada on this important matter.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the minister agrees with me, I would like to know whether he agrees with the second part of my question. It is my clear impression that he must respect the jurisdictions of the provinces and therefore provide for complete opting out with full compensation.

Does the minister intend, out of respect for the provinces, and respecting their jurisdictions and existing plans, to provide this right to opt out with full compensation?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, obviously we intend to respect the provinces' fields of jurisdiction. For the rest, we will discuss the matter with our counterparts, and we will see.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. It concerns the opposition of at least two former Liberal health ministers, the member for Sudbury and Monique Bégin, to the tolerance being extended by the government to private-for-profit clinics in the medicare system and the 12 principles that were signed onto by the government with Alberta. Both of these former ministers have declared these to be a danger to medicare.

Is the minister prepared today to repudiate these ministers or will he do as we urge him to do and repudiate the 12 principles?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, in relation to the comments made by the member for Sudbury, I take it from the reports that there is some suggestion there is an old boys' network, that we do each other favours out of friendship. I want to make it clear to the House and to the hon. member that I have no intention of pulling my punches under the Canada Health Act simply because of my warm and cozy relationship with Mike Harris and Ralph Klein.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I did not raise the comment about the old boys' club. I raised the question about the 12 principles that the government had signed onto and I asked the minister whether he was prepared to repudiate those principles.

I do not care whether it is an old boys' club or an old girls' club. The fact of the matter is that this government is now tolerating private-for-profit clinics and has been doing so for some time. Former ministers of health have called attention to this. We are at a critical point. Bill 11 will move the involvement of these clinics up to a level that threatens medicare in the way that extra billing and user fees did before Monique Bégin acted in 1984.

It is time for the minister to act in that same tradition. Will he do so?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the member that we will do everything required to protect the integrity of the Canada Health Act.

Let me correct something the member said. He refers to 12 principles being signed onto. Let me make it clear that there is no agreement between the Government of Canada and any provincial government with respect to principles beyond the Canada Health Act and nothing in any principles promulgated by any provincial government will ever stand in the way of our enforcing the Canada Health Act.

Finally, in relation to bill 11, as I have assured the member and the House often, we shall act at the appropriate time in what we regard as in the best interest of the Canada Health Act.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, no one in the history of this country has done more to destroy Canadians' access to health care than this Prime Minister. Just ask the member for Sudbury.

Will the Prime Minister move immediately to restore the cuts that his government has made to provincial transfers and commit to long term federal funding for health care?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has an unusual attitude. The Canada Health Act was passed just before a government, led by his party, took office. His party did not do a thing to enforce the Canada Health Act for nine years. To that party it was dead. It was revived by this Liberal government when it enforced the Canada Health Act for the first time. We restored funding for health care. We will continue to do our job on behalf of all Canadians to protect health care for all Canadians.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, let us set the record straight. It was this government that cut $35 billion out of health transfers. As a member of this government said herself, “You get the type of health care system you pay for”.

Of every dollar that is spent in health care, the federal government puts one dime toward the provincial costs of health care.

Will the Prime Minister listen to his former Minister of Health and meet with the premiers and fix this crisis? Maybe the finance minister should bring his cheque book with him.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, next year transfers to the provinces will be $31 billion. That is an all time high. Transfers in terms of equalization will be at an all time high.

The fact is that this government put a floor under the transfers to make sure that they would never drop further, a drop which had occurred under the previous Tory government. At the same time, this government has invested amounts in health care research that the Tory government could not even contemplate. We have put money into the child tax benefit, helping poor and middle income families.

These are all things that the Tory government let lie fallow and this government—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Red Deer.