Debates of May 11th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the police investigation in no way diminishes ministerial accountability.

Let us not forget that Pierre Côté, head of the clothing industry joint committee, had previously received assurances from Modes Conili Star that the jobs would only be transferred. In other words, everyone knew, except the government.

If the joint committee received early notice, then how and why would the minister have us believe that the government did not know anything about this?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, we have done something about it. Once we found out about these letters, which the Bloc was waving in the House on Monday, we moved and referred all of this to the RCMP, which is the appropriate response.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister tells us that she did not know.

Is it normal that those who give the money, who have thousands of public servants working for them, who have the required investigators, are not aware of obvious facts, such as the squandering of $700,000 in public money, just before an election?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, all the moneys that are given out by HRDC are of serious concern to us. That is why we act when we get facts and evidence of wrongdoing, which is what we have done in this case.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, today the Minister of Health tells us that private for profit hospitals comply with the Canada Health Act. Today the Minister of Health tells us that NAFTA is not a worry. Today the Minister of Health tells us he will do nothing to stop bill 11, a spectacular surrender to the biggest threat ever posed to medicare.

Will the minister do the one thing he can now do to help the cause of medicare and resign?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, today in the statement to the House I made clear this government's position and its grave concern. We do not agree with the policy behind bill 11. We share the concerns of many Albertans about what might happen. We will watch to see if there are contraventions of any of the principles of the Canada Health Act. We are beefing up Health Canada's ability to do that across the country. We will be on guard for the principles of the Canada Health Act. We will exercise the authority we have to make sure those principles are respected.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians want more than expressions of grave concern from the health minister. He insults the seniors who stood on the steps of the Alberta legislature in the bitter cold to fight for medicare. He makes a mockery of Canadians' passion for medicare. He denies that it is his inaction that has put medicare at risk.

Will the health minister take some responsibility for this fiasco? Will the health minister do the one thing that remains to him to do, the honourable thing, and tender his resignation?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP members claim the bill should be stopped, but they have no idea how they would do that. They claim that bill 11 is a contravention of the Canada Health Act. They have no idea what kind of contravention it is. They claim that there are things wrong with medicare, but they have no idea what solutions to propose.

The member is making it up as she goes along. She has no concept of what to do. It is no wonder that the public in Canada pays no attention to the NDP.

National Defence

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the government is clearly starting to panic over the press it is getting over the state of our Sea King fleet. Yesterday, in answer to a question in the other chamber, we were informed that the leader of the government in the other place has stated that he will be climbing on board a Sea King for a joy ride along Nova Scotia's coast.

Since it has been some time since the minister has been on board a Sea King, will he and the Prime Minister be joining their Senate colleague on that joy ride, and will the minister assure us that a copy of the flight and maintenance logs of the aircraft involved will be tabled in the House prior to the flight?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we do not take any of our aircraft up for joy rides.

I have no problem flying in a Sea King. As the Senator has indicated, he has no problem doing that either. We all know that they only fly when they are safe to fly. We have a very rigorous safety regime. These aircraft are well maintained. They are currently being upgraded and $50 million is being invested to overhaul them to make sure they will continue to operate, continue to function and will be safe to fly.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1993 the Prime Minister stated that he would not lose any sleep over the cancellation of the helicopter program. But, Mr. Speaker, you know and I know that other Canadians are losing sleep out of concern for our Sea King pilots and crews.

Will the minister give us a date today on which he will announce the new maritime helicopter program, yes or no?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I have said on a number of occasions that the file is moving forward toward the replacement of the Sea Kings. It is our number one procurement priority. We will continue to develop the procurement strategy and they will be replaced well within the limits of their capability.

[The Speaker]

It would seem that when members ask a question we should at least hear the answer. I would encourage hon. members to stop the bantering that goes on when we are trying to listen both to the questions and to the answers.

Human Resources Development

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, just before the 1997 general election Modes Conili received a $720,000 TJF grant to create new jobs. Yesterday the parliamentary secretary said that 162 people were working at the firm and they had applied for the jobs. That is simply false. Nobody applied for anything. The Quebec government has contradicted the parliamentary secretary, saying that it had been advised by Modes Conili that it was just a transfer of existing jobs. In other words, it was all a shell game.

Why is the parliamentary secretary telling the House that new jobs were created when she had to have known they were not?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, if it were simply a transfer, why were those same people on employment insurance between the two sets of jobs?

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is a great question. It is another case of taxpayer money being used to fund people who seem to be very supportive of the government and are rewarded accordingly.

Modes Conili used the same people with the same salaries and the same seniority. That is not new job creation. That is a scam, and the government should have known that since it claims to have fully investigated this case three years ago and at that time had given it a clean bill of health.

Was the bungled investigation of this case yet another example of the minister's incompetence, or are we just now starting to see the unravelling of the cover-up of the government and this scam through HRDC?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is unbelievable to me how they can take a set of circumstances and weave such a tale. It goes on and on and it always seems to have a negative implication on an individual member of the House, one of their colleagues. People who say those kinds of things often find they come back to haunt them.

Young Offenders

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning the Coalition pour la justice des mineurs wrote to the Minister of Justice and held a press conference to reaffirm its complete opposition to Bill C-3 and its amendments.

Will the minister listen to reason once and for all and withdraw her bill, as asked by the coalition?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have said many times before in the House that Bill C-3 is flexible legislation that respects the approach of the province of Quebec.

As I have also indicated, I have asked the hon. member on a number of occasions for an indication of what programs or initiatives presently carried on in Quebec could not continue to be carried on under the new legislation. So far I have not received any such list.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one only has to read the briefs. The briefs we submitted to the minister contained many examples. I gave her one today.

When will the minister realize that she cannot claim to offer positive perspectives to young people and, at the same time, broaden the imposition of adult penalties to 14 and 15 year old children? It does not make sense. To pretend the contrary would be dishonest.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The Minister of Justice.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member should know since he serves on the justice committee, one of the important goals of Bill C-3 is to ensure that fewer young people go to jail. Unfortunately this country has one of the highest incarceration rates for young people. One of the important new goals of Bill C-3 is to keep young people out of jail.

Airline Industry

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when the Competition Bureau and Air Canada reached an agreement last December, one of the conditions was that Canadian Regional Airlines was to be put up for sale.

The agreement called for Canadian Regional Airlines to be put on the block within 45 days of the transaction. We are now approaching 145 days since the transaction, and Air Canada has yet to put Canadian Regional up for sale. Could the minister please explain why this condition of agreement has yet to be honoured?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I very much appreciate the question. The fact is that it has been very difficult to evaluate the true value of Canadian Regional because of the way it was inextricably linked to Canadian Airlines in terms of overlap of marketing, maintenance and all other functions.

However I am pleased that the Competition Bureau and Air Canada have agreed on a third party to evaluate the cost. I believe that process is just about nearing completion and Canadian Regional will be put on the market within a matter of weeks.