Madam Speaker is convinced that this is relevant. Members know it is not just HRDC. The government is dishing out $13 billion in grants and contributions. HRDC is certainly a large part of it but boy, it just flows over every description.
There are lots of Liberal non-answers to the shenanigans in Shawinigan which we have talked about. The whole Shawinigan shakedown has gone on for quite a while now. The Liberals do not allow questions. Let me give a couple of examples.
On May 25, 1999 the Liberal member for Essex who chaired the industry committee in response to Tory questions about whether or not the two hotel owners in question were up to date in their loans, said that questions about individuals would not be allowed. That does not make a whole lot of sense to me. If during a debate we have some questions to ask in the House or in any standing committee, it is unbelievable that it would filter down from the top, from the Prime Minister to the committee chairmen, to everyone else to say something like that. Or they just do not show up.
On May 6, 1999 ethics counsellor Howard Wilson appeared before the industry committee for the first time since June 1994. Did the red book not say he was going to report to parliament? I was sure it did.
How about the “I believe I sold them” line? The Prime Minister said “I will feel until I die”. Do we not love that one, “I will feel until I die that I sold the shares in 1993”. Remember the fracas I just went through in listing the whole chronology. He said he was a director then he said he was not a director. He said he sold his shares and was not a director of the company anymore, until he got caught and found out several months after the 1993 election.
What about claiming innocence? On June 3, 1999 the Prime Minister said “I have followed all the rules for 36 years”. But he had just said in the House a couple of days earlier that he had sold all his shares and was not a director when he became Prime Minister. Howard Wilson, the ethics counsellor in March 1994, months after the 1993 election said that the Prime Minister was a director.
“The Prime Minister's grants are like any others” is another tactic used by the Liberals. On June 2, 1999 the Deputy Prime Minister said that the projects in the riding of Shawinigan were no different from the job creation projects approved in reform party ridings. Let me put that little myth to bed.
The Prime Minister has the levers of power and the levers of money. When people go to him as their little MP to get help or to lobby, it is not like going to even a Liberal backbencher or an opposition member because they have nothing to give in return. But in the Prime Minister's situation, a whole pile of stuff can be given in return.
On March 18, 1999 the Minister for International Trade said that one of the strengths of the transitional jobs fund was to consult with local members of parliament. As soon as local members of parliament get involved, there may be some good feedback and input, but the whole thing is subject to political interference. There are some members who would be tempted to interfere politically in order to get grants for their people. I know he wears his Liberal sweater proudly at the hockey games, so he would never be seen doing anything foolish like that.