moved:
That, in the opinion of this House, the government should work towards incorporating a measure of proportional representation in the federal electoral system, making use of a framework which includes: (a) a report on proportional representation prepared by an all-party committee after extensive public hearings; (b) a referendum to be held on this issue where the question shall be whether electors favour replacing the present system with a system proposed by the committee as concurred in by the House; and (c) the referendum may be held either before or at the same time as the next general election.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to put a motion before the House as a private member, asking that the House conduct a study in a parliamentary committee of the idea of incorporating a measure of proportional representation into our electoral system; that a committee look at the various models which might be appropriate for the country; and that, if the House adopts one of these models, we put that model to the people of the country in a referendum at or around the time of the next federal election campaign.
I do this realizing that this issue has hardly ever been discussed in the Parliament of Canada. The last time there was a private member's motion on the whole idea of changing our electoral system and bringing in a measure of proportional representation was back in 1979 when then Liberal member Jean-Luc Pepin proposed a non-votable motion that was debated by the House. The last time parliament actually voted on the idea of proportional representation was back in 1923. That was a long time ago so I think the time has come now for a debate on whether or not we should look at changing our electoral system. Parliament was strangely silent on the issue for most of the last century.
I also believe that one of the great issues of the next few years will be the issue of governance or democracy, how we govern ourselves as a people, how we organize our society, how we organize our institutions. We talk about governance. We talk about democracy. We talk about an electoral system. We talk about the empowerment of people to make sure that they have a say over what kind of government, what kind of society and what kind of institutions they want to evolve in Canada.
I believe we have to take a serious look at changing our system. Most Canadians do not realize that we are one of only three countries in the world with more than eight million people that has a democratic system which does not have some measure of proportional representation. The other countries are the United States and India. The world has passed us by in terms of evolving an electoral system that reflects more accurately what the people want.
Even in the mother of parliaments, the British parliament, current Prime Minister Tony Blair in his policy of devolution of powers created a Scottish parliament where some people are elected through a measure of PR. It is the same in the Welsh parliament. As a matter of fact in the British Isles all members of parliament who go to the European parliament from Great Britain are elected strictly by proportional representation and the Jenkins committee has recommended PR in England, which I predict will happen in the election after next.
We are being left behind by modern democracies in the world along with the United States and India by using the old first past the post system designed for a two party system. We have left that behind us about 50 or 60 years ago with a multiparty system that creates tremendous distortions in terms of the representation in the House of Commons.
I remember very well when I was first elected back in 1968. There was excitement in the air. People were engaging in politics. People were involved in campaigns and fully 80% of the people in that election campaign cast a ballot. It was common in those days that 80% or more of the people would participate in federal campaigns and in provincial campaigns.
In the last campaign in June 1997 the turnout was 67% of the polls. The turnout has been plummeting in every province in the last 25 or 30 years. The reason for it is that people feel alienated from the political process. They feel politicians do not listen to them, that politicians do not reflect what they want.
There is truth in that and that is one reason people do not participate in the political system. I submit that we are sleepwalking to a crisis in democracy. If we do not look at changing the system to have it more reflective, we will have a real crisis in a few years time.
I want to take a look now at how distorted the present electoral system is. I will use the last election campaign. In 1997 the Liberal Party received 38% of the vote. It got a solid majority that could constitutionally run the country for five years in a system that concentrates a lot of power in the hands of the Prime Minister's Office and the Privy Council Office.
Let us look at the opposition side. We have two parties that got around 19% of the vote, the Reform Party and the Conservative Party. The Conservative Party got 19 seats and the Reform Party got 60 seats, with the same number of Canadians voting for each of those two political parties. Each of the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois got 11% of the vote. The Bloc Quebecois got 44 seats and the NDP got 21 seats, with the same number of Canadians casting a ballot for each of the political parties.
We have a House of Commons that does not reflect or mirror how the people of the country voted three years ago. When people turn on their television sets and see a debate in the House of Commons, parliament does not reflect or mirror the composition of the electorate that voted for us in the first place.
As I said, we are one of only three countries in the world with a population of over eight million people which does not have a measure of proportional representation in the electoral system. That will have to change.
Let us look at the history of our country back in 1921. We have had many majority governments elected over the years but only four of them were elected by a majority of the people. Except for John Diefenbaker in 1958, Mackenzie King in 1945 and Brian Mulroney who had almost 50% of the noes in 1984, all other majorities have been elected by a minority, which means that a minority of the people are governing and ruling a majority of people. That leads to all kinds of alienation.
As a result many issues in the country are now realities that would not have been realities if we had proportional representation. I will name but a couple. I remember the 1988 election campaign. We had two parties, the Liberal Party and the New Democratic Party, campaigning against the free trade agreement with the United States. Between the Liberals and the NDP, the two parties together picked up around 56% or 57% of the vote. That was reflective of the opinion polls which said that the overwhelming majority of the people did not like the free trade deal with the United States.
Brian Mulroney and the Conservatives got 42% of the vote. They won a big majority. Free trade went through and it changed the country forever. It was the same with the GST. There have been many such distortions over the years despite the fact that the majority of people voted against the party that was advocating a particular policy.
We have another distortion. For example, at the provincial level today two provinces have a majority one party government: British Columbia and Quebec. The leading opposition party received more votes than the governing party that by itself forms a majority. We have those kinds of distortions in the electoral system.
I think we need change. The motion today is saying that we should strike a parliamentary committee to look at the ways of incorporating a measure of proportional representation into our system. The motion is very deliberate in saying that we should set up a committee to study the ways of incorporating a measure of PR into the system or, in other words, mix some PR into the system. There are many examples of this in New Zealand, Germany and other countries. We have the Welsh example and the Scottish example. There are many other examples in the world where we have a measure of PR.
There have been studies in this country which have talked about a top-up of 20 members, 30 members, one-third of the members, one-half of the members, or a quarter of the members being elected according to the proportion of votes that a party receives. If at the end of the process a party receives 30% of the votes, say in the province of Quebec, that party should get roughly 30% of the members in the House of Commons from the province of Quebec.
We have great regional distortions today. I look across the way and I see three of my friends from the Liberal Party in Ontario. In Ontario in the last campaign 101 members of the 103 are Liberals. We would say that everyone in Ontario is a Liberal, but if we look at the results in Ontario the Liberals are members of a minority party in Ontario, receiving slightly over 49% of the vote. The majority of Ontarians voted for the NDP, the Reform Party, the Conservative Party and for independents. Almost 51% of Ontario residents voted that way yet only 2 of the 103 members from Ontario represent members who are now sitting in opposition in the House.
I do not think that fosters good nation building or a good vision of what the country should be. It has created great balkanization and great regionalism in the country. If we can bulk up with heavy votes in certain regions we can do well, but if the vote is scattered across the country we do not do anywhere near as well. I think it has created all kinds of regional tensions.
Imagine that we had a system of PR, whatever the appropriate model is for our country. I want to say to members across the way, including my friend from Hamilton who is opposed to the idea of PR, that my motion does not advocate any particular model. That is why I want a parliamentary committee to look at what models may be appropriate to our unique federation. Then take that model back to the House of Commons. If it is approved by the House of Commons, then go to the people in a referendum and let the people decide whether they want the status quo or a new model of proportional representation. What could be more democratic than that in terms of a process?
I appeal to my Liberal friends across the way to give this process a chance. Let us have a discussion for the first time in the history of our country since 1923 as to whether or not we should modernize our electoral system and whether or not we should engage people and empower people in a system that is much more relevant.
Back to regionalism. Imagine an election where we had a measure of proportional representation. Proportional representation would force all the parties in the country to have a national vision about Canada. If they did not have a national vision they would not receive votes.
It would force us in the NDP to look more seriously at Quebec and its uniqueness and distinctiveness. In the same way, Canadian Alliance would look at Quebec and its uniqueness and distinctiveness. It would force the Liberal Party to take the crisis of Saskatchewan and Manitoba farmers more seriously. As a matter of fact, part of the frustration was when farmers from our province came here to lobby, when they asked why the government would not take them more seriously the answer was it only has one seat in Saskatchewan anyway, so what does it matter?
If we had PR, a vote in Kamsack, Saskatchewan would be worth as much as a vote in Trinity—Spadina. It would force all parties to take all parts of the country equally seriously in terms of a national vision as to where they want the country to go. A dream people have, is that we have national parties that would knit the country together to unite it. PR would probably be the greatest step toward national unity we could possibly dream of in terms of the future of our country. I recommend that people think about that as we go on with the debate over the next few weeks.
Another thing is the empowerment of people. If we look at federal and provincial campaigns, the majority of people vote for losers. How many times have we heard, “Well, I vote for losers. My person did not win. My woman did not win. My man did not win. My candidate did not win. I wasted my vote. I voted for a loser”.
In fact, the majority of people in the last campaign voted for losers. The majority of people in my riding voted for losers. I got 43% of the vote. Fifty-seven percent of the people voted for other parties. Even in ridings where people had a majority, such as yours, Mr. Speaker, I suspect 40% to 45% of the people in your riding voted for losers. They feel they waste their vote so why should they engage themselves in the process?
Under proportional representation no one votes for a loser. Everyone is a winner. Every single vote counts. Every single vote has weight in the Parliament of Canada. When we turn on our televisions the day after the election, our vote will count no matter where we are in the country, because our vote will be going to a certain political party that will get a certain number of members in the House of Commons in accordance with the vote for that party. That is what almost every country in the world does. It means we could vote Reform in Newfoundland, it means we could vote NDP in Alberta, it means we could vote Liberal in rural Saskatchewan and our vote would still count.
Our point of view would still count. Our point of view would still be important not just on election day but for four years. Our vote would count for four years each and every single day as we empower a member of parliament to speak on our behalf because our vote is reflected in the House of Commons for four years.
It would do something else that is extremely radical, so radical for our system that maybe it is heresy. It would force politicians to work together. We could not harangue each other all the time. We would have to work together. We would have to form coalitions and work together like they do in most countries around the world.
Since the second world war Germany has never had a majority government by one party. There has always been a working coalition, Social Democrats, Christian Democrats, the Liberal equivalent in that country, and so on. It is the same in most Scandinavian countries, France and many other countries around the world. It would force politicians to form a consensus in terms of what we want to do and where we want to go.
PR in Canada would radically change voting patterns. How many times have we heard people say, “I would vote for your party but you cannot win”. I have a friend who has voted for a party that he does not like for the last 20 years in every single federal election campaign. He votes for that party because he is trying to keep out another party he likes even less. For the last 20 years he has not voted for the party of which he is a card carrying member. Under PR he could vote for the party of his preference because his vote would count. We might see a radical change in voting patterns because we would not have such a thing as strategic voting. A vote would count no matter who an individual voted for. That is another reason we should look at PR in terms of empowering people.
Those are some of my arguments in favour of proportional representation.
Some people may ask would proportional representation not create all kinds of fringe groups and all kinds of instability and uncertainty? I want to respond to a couple of those questions. I think they are myths.
In almost every country in the world where there is proportional representation there is a threshold above which parties must achieve votes before they are represented in parliament. In some countries that threshold is 3%, some countries 4% and some countries 5%. That is something we could look at as well.
Other people may ask if it would not create a great deal of instability. We have more instability now because we are a first past the post system. With a minor change in the votes we create great U-turns in terms of policy. Free trade is a good example of that. I think with proportional representation where all parties were represented in the governing process there would be more gradualism in terms of policy changes and more stability in terms of the direction of the country because a consensus representing the people at all times would be needed.
There are a number of other criticisms of the PR system that some people have, but my time is coming to a close. I say to my colleagues that in private members' hour we have a chance to debate and vote on something that might be done outside the constraints of the party whips.
I appeal to all members of the Bloc Quebecois. René Lévesque spoke very passionately about proportional representation. Many people in the Parti Quebecois and the Bloc spoke about PR. I say to them that my motion does not define a particular method of PR. My motion deals with a process that will lead us to an appropriate model of PR for Canada which could be good for the Bloc Quebecois.
I say to the Reform Party, now the Canadian Alliance, that many of its people were among the first to advocate proportional representation in this country, including the member from Vancouver who is about to speak. This system could also be helpful to get their ideas in a permanent mix in the country. The same thing is true of our party in terms of being social democrats. It could be a system for the Conservative Party which is really underrepresented now because of our first past the post system.
I appeal in particular to the government. The first past the post system works very well for the government in power just because of the mathematics. I say to the government across the way that the day will come when it will not be in power. I would like the government members to think about that because when they are sitting on the opposition benches, when they get a lot more votes than seats in the House, then maybe the idea of doing what almost every other country in the world has done, having a measure of PR in our electoral system, will look a lot more appealing to them.
I remember sitting on this side of the House and seeing the huge Conservative majority of Brian Mulroney with 211 seats. Suddenly in a few short years that majority disappeared. I was very pleased to have heard many Conservatives talking about PR at their convention recently. I am talking of individuals such as Hugh Segal and others.
I appeal to the House to take my motion seriously and look at changing our electoral system to make it more democratic. Let us make sure it is a system where no vote is wasted, where people are empowered and the Parliament of Canada will truly reflect the way the people vote.