Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the member's motion in support of the general thrust of the motion. The tone of my support is somewhat different from that of the member who moved the motion. He tended to configure his support for the motion in the context of being anti-state or keeping the state out of how the family is run. I would suggest to him that section 43 is already a manifestation of the state having a right to set limits on what parents are able to do in terms of disciplining their children.
There was somewhat of a contradiction in the member's argument. Either the state has this right or it does not. I would suggest that it does and that section 43 is an appropriate reflection of that right of the state. The member himself pointed to the fact that the origin of this section was an intention to protect children and to limit and to eliminate physical abuse of children. It was not designed to condone, to permit or to promote, but rather to set the appropriate context where physical discipline can be used by parents on children and by teachers on students.
I would call the attention of the House to the fact that this is not just a matter of individual members of parliament having this concern, it is also a concern that teachers have. It has been expressed as the member noted by the Canadian Teachers' Federation.
The federation argued quite persuasively that with the elimination of section 43, if it were to be removed from the criminal code, there would be a dramatic increase in the number of assault charges on teachers. As a precaution teachers would be advised or would choose not to intervene in school situations since their stepping in to resolve the situation might lead to their being charged with assault. The reticence of teachers to step in would result in more serious injuries to students as well as a deterioration of the classroom and school learning environment.
What we are talking about here is not the premeditated corporal punishment of strapping that used to occur in schools. We are talking about those situations in which teachers want to have the freedom to intervene in the moment to protect students when there is a fight, to escort uncooperative students, to eject a student who refuses to leave a classroom, to place a young student on a bus who refuses to leave after a field trip or who refuses to go and needs to go, or to restrain certain students.
All these things do not have to do with the old fashioned premeditated corporal punishment that took the form of strapping, the efficacy of which I always doubted very much. I think schools are better without it. I do not see any evidence that schools perform worse in any significant respect given the absence of strapping or the absence of premeditated corporal punishment.
To suggest that teachers would not be able to do anything would be a mistake, just as it would be a mistake to suggest that parents cannot do anything. Whenever we get into a zero tolerance situation we create a culture of fear and intimidation. We already see this now with the whole notion of physical contact. Teachers and other people who deal with children are afraid to put their arms around anybody. They are afraid to hug a child who needs emotional support. They are afraid to do all kinds of things for fear they might be accused of child abuse or sexual harassment.
We are trying to eliminate judgment from our society. When anything can possibly be used in a negative way we say let us not have it at all. That is a mistake. We are human beings. We are given a certain amount of freedom and we have to exercise judgment. The motion says that we do not want parents or teachers to be able to exercise judgment and to be held accountable for the kind of judgments they make. We want to eliminate that capacity for judgment. That is a mistake.
I can think of obvious examples. When toddlers or kids want to put their hands on a hot stove, are we to be criminalized for tapping the tops of their hands and telling them not to put their hands on the hot element or in the fire? Are we to be criminalized for patting them on the bottom if they persist in running out into traffic? These kinds of little things can create an atmosphere for various kinds of witch hunts. There is also the example of siblings harming each other who need to be kept from doing so even if it is by physical restraint or physical discipline.
I think section 43 at the present time is sufficient. I have received a lot of mail from constituents who seem to feel that the elimination of section 43 is imminent and they want me to stop it. There is a bit of political campaigning here. Some people are trying to exploit this issue for political purposes, creating a sense that something is about to happen which is not about to happen.
I have always made it clear to constituents who have written to me that I would not be in favour of repealing section 43 for the reasons I have just outlined, and I think the majority of members of parliament would not either. If there is a way we can put this to rest both for the sake of the substance of the matter and to eliminate some of the politics that have surrounded the issue, that would serve everybody very well.
I come from a family which for at least two generations the use of corporal punishment was something that was exceedingly rare so my comments are not out of defence of anything I have found in my own experience. I think all of us, at least those in my generation, would attest that many of our parents come from a generation where corporal punishment was the rule of the day. Family stories are replete with what happened if a child talked back to his or her father or misbehaved. There has been all kinds corporal punishment.
I am not making an argument for corporal punishment. I am just saying that some of the connections we often simplistically make do not always hold up sociologically and historically. I think one of the best generations that ever existed in this country, my parents' generation, was a generation that was raised in a context where parents dished out a lot more physical discipline than any of us here would regard as acceptable. I am not saying that was a good thing; in fact in many respects I think it was a bad thing, but to draw any quick and easy psychological or sociological conclusions about when people are on the receiving end of corporal punishment, if it happens in an appropriate context it is not always for the worst.
We should leave section 43 as it stands. I hope other members feel likewise.