Debates of May 3rd, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let me try again.

[An hon. member]

Slowly, slowly.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Very slowly, as my colleague suggests. We put together a plan. What we felt was appropriate to do was to test this plan with outside experts, the auditor general, Deloitte & Touche, and the advisory committee to treasury board. They all gave us recommendations and we implemented those recommendations to tighten our plan.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, right from day one in January the minister pretended that her plan was the right plan, a good plan, no problems with her plan.

She never once told Canadians or the House “oops, this plan wasn't so good. We actually had to come up with a better one later”. She has never ever said that. Instead she chose to hide the Deloitte & Touche report and maintain all along that her plan was just great from day one. Why was safeguarding her own image more important to her than really safeguarding taxpayer money?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I presented to the standing committee the six point plan back in February. I suggested to all members if they had advice to give us to strengthen that plan that they do so.

I have not had one recommendation from that party to strengthen the plan because it is amended and it is working. We are making and taking corrective action in my department.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Placeteco is a good example of everything that ought not to be done in a case when public funds are invested.

The minister says that the mistakes made were honest ones. I am willing to believe her, and the proof that the funds were really awarded properly and in accordance with the rules is that she has the invoices.

I am asking her this: Why will she not make the invoices public? It would be easy and we might then understand. Can she make public the invoices establishing that the funds were really awarded properly and in accordance with the rules?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member makes reference to mistakes. I would like to clarify something from yesterday.

Yesterday this member said that he had received on Monday documentation on this company from the ATIP section of my department. I would like to clarify that my officials have advised me that in fact no such documentation was issued yesterday, the day before that, the week before that, or even the month before that. Was that a mistake?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[An hon. member]

Jane is in trouble.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I, for one, can admit that I made a mistake.

We had the documents the day before yesterday. We have the complete file. We got it through access to information, as and she should know, with the numbers and the vouchers but there are no invoices in it. We submitted another request asking specifically for the invoices and we have been waiting over a month. She should be aware of that too.

I wonder why invoices were missing when we got the file from access to information. The Méribec file came from her department and is in the Prime Minister's riding. Is it because there are none?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is talking about a particular access to information request. If he would like to bring that forward we will look at it more, but I can tell him that there has been no information on this particular file that has gone out through access to information yesterday or the day before.

Let us be clear about access to information. This is an act of this House, as is the Privacy Act. I make no decisions on the information that is conveyed to requesters. The hon. member knows that. I would suggest to him that it is and does remain the responsible way to provide information on private paperwork of citizens in this country, using the acts that have been passed by the House.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we will shortly be releasing to journalists the entire Placeteco file obtained through access to information and we will see who is right. Perhaps she should ask her officials to get down to work like everyone else.

If she wants the application we made on March 23 to access to information, there is another one concerning the invoices.

Could she tell us whether she has the infamous invoices? Instead of playing cat and mouse, she should table the invoices, because everything indicates that there are none and that we are not exactly being told the truth here.

[The Speaker]

I think we are getting close to words that are unparliamentary.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I ask all members to be very careful in their choice of words.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, with requesters responding to access requests, as I have made clear to the House, my department has been deluged by those requests. We have more this year than we had in the whole of last year. We have issued 115,000 pages of information, and we will respond to that particular request.

Again I say that when we are talking about information on companies here in the country or on individuals in the country, the responsible and appropriate way to make that information public is through the access to information process. As the member knows, I have no decision making authority in what information is conveyed. What can be conveyed will be conveyed.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a bit surprising that in 10,000 pages, when we have been after the invoices for a year, there are no invoices to be found in the case of Placeteco, and yet they appear in other files.

I will chose my words carefully, Mr. Speaker, but I would ask that she not select the invoices. She should give us the ones for Placeteco, not the ones for Globax or Technipaint. What we want from her are the ones from Placeteco, because Placeteco got a grant. That seems clear to me.

This is being discussed everywhere. If she is still not aware of the fact, she has a lot of problems, this minister.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

On the contrary, Mr. Speaker. I feel very comfortable in this particular file. We have reviewed it. We have identified that we have invoices. That is confirmed and are appropriate under the terms and conditions of the program.

I feel very comfortable in our six point plan and the work of my department to build a modern system of comptrollership that will respond to the taxpayer in an appropriate way.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I would ask the members to lower their voices when a minister or someone else is answering questions, or when questions are being put.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Yesterday in the House the Prime Minister cited the five principles of medicare. I want to give the Prime Minister a chance to exceed expectations. Could the Prime Minister stand in his place and name the five principles of medicare?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the hon. member opposite, this Prime Minister was in this House when those five principles were put into law. Unlike that member, this Prime Minister does not just talk about the five principles of medicare, he acts to protect them. This is the first government in the history of this country that has used the power under the Canada Health Act—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.