Debates of May 8th, 2000

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution Act

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

Unfortunately our records indicate that the hon. member for Okanagan—Shuswap has already been on his feet. I am sorry it took that long to figure it out.

[Wendy Lill, NDP, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I rise again to speak to Bill C-11 with some sadness.

The last time I spoke on the bill was in November. I raised questions about the basic misunderstanding of the problems in Cape Breton by the government. I spoke about the fact that many Cape Bretoners who still consider themselves Cape Bretoners no longer are able to live there. They now reside in my community of Dartmouth or in Montreal, Calgary or Toronto, or they have been forced to leave the country. They go to Boston or elsewhere in the United States because of the government's approach to the problems of Cape Breton.

The approach has been that it is time to move on; it is time to leave the island that they love; it is time to lower expectations, to know that what the coal miners have wrested from the rock with their sweat and with the lives of their fathers and grandfathers is not worth the government's attention any longer. What it is really time for is the government to stop being so arrogant and to stop being so patronizing.

Since I last spoke on this bill a number of things have happened. The people of Cape Breton finally got the government's attention by taking direct action. They took control of the mine. These men had finally had enough and the spouses and the families of the men had had enough. Together they took control of the mine. I do not blame them. They were not prepared to let the legacy of sweat their forefathers had left go without a fight.

I want to salute the member for Bras d'Or—Cape Breton for her levelheaded and hands on approach to the workers who took that dramatic action. I think the situation may have descended to violence had she not been there to keep communications between the parties going during that very tense situation. That took a lot of guts on her part and it took a lot of guts on the workers' part to take the action that they did. They brought the attention of the entire country to their plight.

I also wish to thank the member for Sydney—Victoria for the brilliant defence of his constituents and his articulate, eloquent and passionate representations made to government members, sadly to no avail. The Liberals seem hell-bent on destroying Cape Breton island. They told the workers down the mine that they would send their reasonable grievances to an independent decision maker to get them to end the strike and allow the coal to flow once again.

It was strange that when the coal stopped flowing the power supply to my constituency became uncertain. Still the Liberals say that shutting off the tap of Cape Breton coal is a good thing. Maybe I should be a little more charitable.

It is willing to let Devco go simply so an American company can have the privilege of buying the supply contract which will keep my constituents' lights on. However, from what I am hearing here and back in Nova Scotia, the government has never fulfilled this promise to the brave workers who went down that mine. I am not surprised, only saddened.

The only thing the government has done is assured workers in Cape Breton that they will be provided jobs in call centres. The Prime Minister himself flew to Cape Breton on the eve of a provincial election to tell people in Cape Breton that he would get rid of good paying jobs without providing decent severance and let them work for crap wages in call centres. The Prime Minister called this the best kind of patronage. I call it arrogant and patronizing.

While being a playwright, I had the great pleasure to write a play about characters living in Glace Bay, called The Glace Bay Miners' Museum . It was based on a very important story of the same name by Sheldon Currie. This bill presents to me a whole new scenario, a comedy of course, a farce I guess.

[An hon. member]

Black.

[Wendy Lill, NDP, Dartmouth, NS]

A black comedy, absolutely.

I have visions dancing in my head of a whole new industry being put together in Cape Breton by the Government of Canada because it believes in patronage first. First it announces call centres. Hundreds and hundreds of jobs all over Cape Breton for former coal miners to sit behind desks and explain to callers from Alabama how to fix their washing machines or how the good people of Mississauga can order their lingerie in the right size or colour.

Then a problem surfaces. The call centre company's quality control police at head office in Dallas or Singapore notice that these call centre workers have Cape Breton accents, probably in both languages. This greatly offends their sense of global commercial homogeneity and the companies are not happy. The government believes, above all else, that companies be kept happy.

I see a group of concerned ministers and a legion of advisors huddled around the Prime Minister discussing accent problems. What is the result? We have a whole new private sector industry being subsidized by HRDC to train Cape Bretoners not to have accents. The Prime Minister himself will give the final exam because he believes in hands on patronage for Cape Breton, and according to many comics I know, he is an expert on accents.

I see the Prime Minister personally flying into Sydney and Glace Bay on each and every graduation day to congratulate the new accentless Cape Bretoners.

I also see problems with some of the companies accounting for all the money they were given, but that would be another story, a different story.

Eventually, the government, for the benefit of Cape Bretoners, will encourage them to leave the island, after all they no longer had accents and the call centre business was now moving farther offshore due to newly signed trade agreements negotiated by the Government of Canada.

I admit that some of this has been in jest, but less than one would think. The underlying theme, that this government is destroying Cape Breton, its culture, its lifestyle and its soul with this bill, is not a joke. It is forcing people in industrial Cape Breton to make a choice: accept less and maybe not be forced to leave or leave and maybe not be forced to accept less. This is no real choice at all. It is torture. It is cruel, cynical and unjustifiable.

Even at this late stage of debate, even during the tyranny of closure, I call on the Liberals to think about what they are doing and pull this bill.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise today to speak to this amendment on Bill C-11.

First, I want to tell the House, on behalf of the Canadian Alliance, how absolutely aghast we are at the government for once again moving closure. The government has now hit the record for the number of times closure has been moved. It has tied the record of the Mulroney regime that preceded it, and in a much shorter time.

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

That's nothing to be proud of.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

That is nothing to be proud of. What does closure mean? It means that the government is cutting off debate.

This is an important issue. There will be almost 1,600 families affected by this legislation. We have talked for a little over five hours on this issue in the House. There is no reason in the world why we should not have the ability to talk about something that so fundamentally affects the people of Cape Breton as does Bill C-11.

I also remind the House that there have been many other times when the government has prematurely moved closure. Let us consider Bill C-20, the clarity legislation. We talked about it for 18 minutes before the government moved closure.

It is outrageous that the Liberals continues to do this and is not embarrassed about it. They seem to think it is fine if it is them pushing the legislation through. They should be absolutely ashamed. This is anti-democratic behaviour. On an issue that is as important as this one, it is absolutely ridiculous. The people of Cape Breton should be outraged by what we have seen from the government.

I will now move on to more specifics in Bill C-11. I have been to Cape Breton but I do not pretend to know it as well as some colleagues in this place. Cape Bretoners are wonderful and warm people. They live in a beautiful part of the world. Given an even chance, they would have an outstanding economy. As far as I can tell, Bill C-11 seems to be the final chapter in a legacy of broken promises by successive governments.

What started out many years ago as a plan to help out Cape Breton, instead seemed to be a situation where the government kept hanging the carrot in front of their nose causing them to move forward but ultimately to never realize their goal.

What was the goal of Devco and all the money that was put into Cape Breton? It was to build a sustainable industry in Cape Breton. Obviously, that has not happen. A lot of money has been poured into this and people have spent years in those mines building what they thought was a career. Now it has all come tumbling down around their ears. They have families and they expected to have a future in that place. It is now gone. The government should be absolutely ashamed for allowing this to happen over this long period of time.

We could recount reasons for for this, but it boils down to a lack of transparency and honesty from this government and previous governments about what would happen and what the chances would be of having a sustainable industry. Even today my colleagues have pointed out that there is no reason to believe that those mines could not be profitable. Because of government policies, that has not happened. Who pays the price for that? It is the workers at Devco and the people of Cape Breton.

I suppose there are many ways we could try to fix this. I do not pretend to be enough of expert to talk about those in great detail. However, I do believe there is hope for the people of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia and Atlantic in general. It does not lie with governments that do not give people the straight goods. It does not lie with governments that build peoples' hopes up only to dash them later. It lies in the private sector. It is time we gave the people of Cape Breton the same tools that many of the more developed areas of the country already have.

What are those things? The people of Cape Breton need to enjoy some lower taxes. Cape Breton is a beautiful and gorgeous part of the world. With a trained workforce and with people who know how to work hard, it has the ability to become a prosperous part of the economy that some parts of Canada now enjoy. How do we do that? We do that in a number of ways. First, let us clean up the mess at Devco. Let us get it behind us and ensure that people get a proper severance package, one that will not leave them high and dry if they are near retirement but do not have the number of years that would allow them to have that package. Let us treat them decently and put this issue behind us.

Second, let us go about allowing the economy to produce jobs that these people can rely on. How do we do that? We begin by lowering taxes for one thing. I am not saying that is the only thing. We must give people a decent severance package so they can pay for retraining.

The government must be allowed to remove the barriers that prevent so many companies from investing in places like Cape Breton.

Why is it that some parts of the country do extraordinarily well while others languish? One of the reasons is that the governments looking after those areas have all kinds of impediments in place that do not allow those areas to prosper. Cape Breton, I would argue, is a victim of those sorts of policies. Sadly, that has happened at the provincial level. I will not reflect on whether it is happening now. It has certainly happened at the federal level over a long period of time when areas like Cape Breton were operated like a fiefdom by certain Liberal members of parliament and senators. That is crazy and it has to end.

We are not in the 20th century any more. We have to step into the 21st century and give these people the tools they need to do the job: lower taxes, fewer regulations and a commitment to training the people of Cape Breton and Nova Scotia, which should primarily come through provincial levels of government. This is probably an area where I disagree with my friends on other sides of the House, but I think it needs to come through the provinces.

These people need to be well trained. If this begins to happen, we will perhaps see the sorts of things that have happened in other parts of the country begin to happen in Cape Breton. People will come to a beautiful place like Cape Breton because the impediments are now gone. They will want to enjoy the quality of life that a place like Cape Breton can offer.

This is an island that people from across Canada and from around North America flock to because it is so beautiful and a wonderful part of the world. The people are great and have a unique culture. Cape Breton has every potential to become a powerful economic area. However, it will not happen if we continue to go down the same tried and failed road we have gone down so many times before.

Help is not going to ultimately come from governments. If there is any lesson to be learned from the last 30 years in Cape Breton, it is that the government cannot be relied on. What happens time after time is that nobody wants to do what is right, they only want to do what is easy. They want to do what they think will get them re-elected, only to find out years later that they made promises they could not keep. For crying out loud, let us not go down that road again.

Instead, let us give these people the tools. Let us lower their taxes, leave more money in their pockets and let the entrepreneurial spirit shine in Cape Breton. I believe it can. We have seen it happen in many other places.

I will conclude by simply saying, especially to my friend across the way who has been responsible for moving closure so many times, that it is time to allow a little democracy to flourish in Canada. This is the House of Commons, the Parliament of Canada. If democracy should be evident anywhere, it should be evident here.

Sadly, freedom of speech is apparently something that is anathema to the government. It does not want to hear about people getting up and speaking out on issues that are important to the people so it moves closure and shuts down debate. It has now moved closure as many times as the Mulroney regime, and it should be ashamed.

Cape Breton has the tools to do the job. Unfortunately, it has been pounded by government after government suggesting that help will come from Ottawa. It has not. Promises have been dashed by this government and other governments.

The people of Cape Breton need a new vision, a vision that embraces the private sector, one that has provided so much prosperity for the rest of Canada. Let us hope that the government will see the error of its ways and allow the people of Cape Breton to really flourish in the future.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the government wants to impose time allocation again, for the 65th time, I think. I am a young parliamentarian, but I always thought parliament was the place to debate, to discuss issues.

However, I can understand why the government wants to gag the opposition. It is because it closed Cape Breton's Devco mine.

The Liberals have nothing to say, since hardly any of them have addressed the issue this afternoon. Only opposition members are talking about it. If the Liberals are proud of the job that they are doing, if they are proud of having found the solution for Cape Breton people, they should at least rise and defend their position. They are closing that mine, but they have no good reason to do so, they have no reason at all.

They have no reason to do that to people who have worked in the mine for over 30 years, people whose lives totally depend on that mine. This closure will affect over 1,500 families, not to mention the spinoff it will have on all the other jobs related to that mine.

As Newfoundland's Premier Brian Tobin said “It is not the people of Atlantic Canada who let the Liberals down, it is the Liberals who let Atlantic Canada down”. That is the problem for the Atlantic provinces. The Liberals let them down.

It is not just Devco. We have a similar situation with the Sydney steel plant. The Liberals are letting the people of Atlantic Canada down.

The government offered $8,000 for training. What difference is that $8,000 going to make to train people who are 45 of 50, to help them rejoin the labour force, considering that it is hard to find work in the Atlantic provinces? Jobs do not grow on trees.

The people of Cape Breton deserve more respect. The miners of Cape Breton deserve more respect. As a former miner myself, it is something I have to say today in the House of Commons. I said it last time and I say it again today, I have a lot of respect for these miners.

Government members say they supported Cape Breton all those years. The people of Cape Breton got up every morning to go to work. They have put their health and their life on the line. They have sacrificed their health for this country. Today, people like the finance minister are benefiting from what is happening in Cape Breton, as his ships are bringing in coal from abroad. What is going on in this country is absolutely shameful.

People went on a hunger strike to get the attention of the Liberal government. We will recall minister Dingwall, who was turfed out by my colleague from Bras d'Or—Cape Breton. The same government that is currently in power has hurt seasonal workers in Atlantic Canada and across the country by cutting EI benefits.

While in opposition, Liberal members used to say that, should they ever form the government, they would never do as the Tories did. They used to say economic problems ought it be attacked, not people. This is what the Prime Minister used to say when he was in opposition. But once in office, the Liberals gutted employment insurance. They squeezed out seasonal workers who are faced with the black hole, the so-called gappers.

This is what the Liberals have done. They followed in Brian Mulroney's footsteps. There is a good reason why we can hear a Liberal member singing. He is unable to rise and make a decent speech in support of the closure imposed by his party. The Liberals have invoked closure in the House of Commons 65 times. Shame on them. This is an all time record.

It is a real shame that the government put closure on this legislation so we cannot debate this issue.

[An hon. member]

What is the difference?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

There is no difference. The parliamentary leaders in the House of Commons know better than that. It is a real shame how the people of Cape Breton are being treated today. The Premier of Newfoundland, a good Liberal and a good friend of the Prime Minister, said that the people of the Atlantic provinces did not drop the Liberals, the Liberals dropped them. We could see that is what happened with employment insurance

The Liberals were in opposition in the spring of 1993. The present Prime Minister said at that time to some people in Quebec that the Conservative Party attacked the wrong people by cutting the employment insurance. They should attack the economy is what he said.

In March 2000 we heard the Prime Minister at the Liberal convention saying “We lost the Atlantic provinces because we cut the employment insurance. We have to give it back if we want some votes”. He did not say he wanted to give it back because he heard the people, the seasonal workers. That is not what he said. We might have said that was a good thought on his part and that the Liberals will make some changes because they now realize they have hurt families in this country from coast to coast to coast. That is not what they said. Now they are saying that the Atlantic is for sale. I have a surprise for them. The Atlantic is not for sale and our people in the Atlantic will not be bought out by the Liberals, I can tell hon. members that much.

I remember not too long ago the Liberal caucus in the Atlantic provinces said “Let us catch the wave, and to catch the wave we have to change the employment insurance because when we changed the employment insurance we lost the Atlantic. Let us catch the wave”.

I hope the Liberals catch the wave and that they start to understand that in the Atlantic provinces we are still part of this country. We are human beings in the Atlantic provinces and we have kids who have to go to school. The kids will go hungry because of the decisions of this government. The government dropped them, that is what it did.

It is a shame what the Liberals have done to Cape Bretoners. It is a shame what they did in my riding where people are caught in the gap and then left on the street. Shame on the Liberals for what they have done to the people in the Atlantic provinces and across the country who are not fortunate enough to have a full time job. Shame on the Liberals for what they have done.

The Liberals should really be ashamed of the way they treated the people who are not lucky enough to have a full time job. I offer as an example all those who have seasonal jobs in the area of tourism. The New Brunswick provincial government is now telling loggers “In the short term, the only solution is to go on welfare”. I am sure the same thing is going on in Cape Breton.

The attitude of today's governments has to change. I know that people alone will be able to bring about this change by putting the Liberals out of office once and for all and by showing them the real road so they will understand what it means to be a family in misery, instead of all of them coming from Ontario, where things are prosperous and where they are lucky enough to have people who work all year long.

If they go to northern Ontario, perhaps they will understand too. Even Liberal colleagues say that people have been mistreated by the Liberals.

I hope that this amendment will be referred to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development so that we can look at the human side of this situation and the way people will be affected by what the government has in mind.

I hope the government will agree to this amendment and send it to the committee on human resources because we have to look at it as a human problem for the people of Cape Breton.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time I have had a chance to speak after my good friend from Acadie—Bathurst. I appreciate the emotion and the colour he is able to put into his speeches.

I would like to add a few remarks as we come to the conclusion of speeches on second reading of Bill C-11.

On November 15, 1999, the Minister of Natural Resources indicated to the House that fundamental change is required in the coal industry in Cape Breton and that Bill C-11 is an important component in the reshaping of that industry.

The bill provides the legal authority for the Cape Breton Development Corporation, or Devco as it is commonly known, to sell all or substantially all of its assets. The bill is consistent with the recommendation from Devco's board that a private sector buyer should be sought to purchase Devco's assets, as agreed to and announced by the government in January 1999.

Finding a strong private sector owner who can maintain a commercially viable operation over the long term is viewed as the best and most realistic way to sustain as many coal mining jobs as possible in Cape Breton.

In the debate of this bill, considerable support has been expressed by members on both sides of the House for a private sector commercial operation. I am pleased to tell the House that the firm of Nesbitt Burns Inc., which is managing the sales process for Devco, has been successful in identifying private sector interest in Devco's assets. In fact, prospective purchasers have toured Devco's facilities as part of their due diligence process and definitive proposals have been received for Devco's assets.

Devco is at the stage of evaluating and clarifying one of the proposals with a view to finalizing the broad terms and conditions of a sale in June. Negotiations concerning the final detailed agreement of purchase and sale would then follow.

The prospects for transferring Devco's assets to the private sector and for maintaining coal mining jobs in a private sector commercial operation are real.

It is now more important than ever with purchasers on Devco's doorstep that we move forward with this bill. Timely passage of Bill C-11 will allow Devco the legal authority to finalize a sales transaction with the purchaser. Most important, a sale will confirm the maintenance of good, solid private sector coal mining jobs.

During the debate there has been some concern expressed about the fairness of the $111 million human resources compensation package for those Devco employees, estimated at approximately 1,000, who will lose their jobs because of the need to close the Phalen mine.

In January of this year, in response to requests from its unions, Devco's management agreed to establish a joint planning committee which is following the process as outlined in the Canada Labour Code to resolve issues related to the existing human resources package.

This process has led to the appointment of an independent third party arbitrator whose decision will be binding on both parties. That decision is expected around the end of May.

Beyond providing the legally required sale authority, the bill creates no new ministerial powers and no delegated authorities. It maintains what is called the general advantage of Canada clause which will ensure that the Canada Labour Code will continue to apply, a point which is important to Devco's unions and employees.

The sale proceeds, as with any other funds provided to Devco, will be expended under business plans which will be approved by the Government of Canada. The Financial Administration Act requires that Devco operate within an approved business plan, summaries of which are tabled in the House. The bill will not change that requirement.

Concern has also been raised by some hon. members about Bill C-11's elimination of section 17(4) of the Devco act. Let me remind my colleagues of two points.

First, the Canada Labour Code, as well as collective agreements between Devco and its unions, contain provisions dealing with workforce reductions.

Second, the economic development responsibilities of Devco's former industrial development division were transferred to Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation in 1988. Although Devco has continued to make a significant contribution to the Cape Breton economy, it has not been an instrument of economic development for over 10 years. However, economic development on Cape Breton is continuing to be addressed by the government.

In fact, to support economic development in Cape Breton and in response to the requirement to close Devco's Phalen mine, the Government of Canada has already committed $68 million. The Government of Nova Scotia also contributed $12 million for this purpose.

The new federal funding is in addition to any job creation or economic development activities that would normally be undertaken by either the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation or the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, or any other federal agency or department.

Already the existence of this fund has made it possible to attract jobs to Cape Breton. On March 21 the Prime Minister announced the DES Sydney centre, a contact centre that will create up to 900 full time jobs over the next four years. As requested by Cape Bretoners, local consultations have been undertaken to obtain the very best possible local advice about how to use that new funding.

The panel that was assigned to conduct these consultations with Cape Bretoners has submitted its final report to ministers. Federal and provincial officials will use that information as the basis upon which to design an economic investment strategy for Cape Breton. The initial elements of that strategy should be operational this summer.

Just as an aside I would point out, and I would like to make comments contrary to those of the member for Dartmouth who exhibited very little confidence, I believe in the workers of Cape Breton.

Sheelagh Whittaker, who is president and CEO of DES Canada, when it was announced that this new major project would be undertaken in Cape Breton, said this: “DES customers, major global corporations and telecommunications manufacturing and financial services will come to rely on this centre for rapid and responsive support. The customer service professionals here”, and she meant there in Cape Breton, “will be trained and equipped with cutting edge web and wireless technologies and the DES centre itself will be nothing short of a showcase featuring the latest thinking in both technology and customer service processes”.

I believe she was clear in saying she was making a bit of a joke I guess of the situation unfortunately, but I would ask her to revisit her words and instead say that the people of Cape Breton and the workers in the coal industry are capable people, capable of adjusting to a new world and in fact as we begin this new millennium proceed with a confidence that I believe and we all believe is there.

Everyone knows the enormity of the challenges now facing the people of Cape Breton. The Government of Canada is committed to assisting in every reasonable way to help building a more secure and durable future. Legislation now before us is the key to moving that process forward. The future hinges in large part upon that process being successful in finding a buyer who will make a tangible and long term commitment to Cape Breton and to Cape Bretoners and to its workers.

Bill C-11 is relatively simple and straightforward. By allowing a private sector operator to purchase Devco's mining assets we are taking a tangible step to try to maintain the maximum possible number of coal mining jobs in Cape Breton in a commercially viable context for the long term. Now is the time to get on with the important business of examining the bill in more detail in committee. Now is the time for us to show confidence in Cape Breton and its people.

In responding to the amendment with reference to the HRDC committee, I believe its proper place is with the Standing Committee on Natural Resources and Government Operations which is fully capable of examining this bill. While I remind the House the bill is a simple bill, a straightforward bill, it does not create any new authorities for the minister. It does not delegate any authorities. It is a bill which will allow for the evolution as it must of the coal mining industry in Cape Breton.

With that I see that my time is up, Mr. Speaker. I ask all members to support the bill, including my colleagues across the House.

[Michelle Dockrill, NDP, Bras D'Or, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask for unanimous consent to share my time with the hon. member for Halifax.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Michelle Dockrill, NDP, Bras D'Or, NS]

Mr. Speaker, all the mindless moralizing, tongue clucking and finger wagging that we are hearing from this side of the House is the same attitude that came with the announcement that 1,100 coal miners in Cape Breton were out of work.

The so-called analysis of the event wafting out of all the ivory towers west of our island could barely contain a content for coal miners, the whole tribe of poor cousins east of the Gaspé. Our sin, to hear the chattering elite tell it, was twofold: first, we were poor; second, and even worse, we were undeserving poor, the kind that is able enough but unwilling to do much for themselves, always expecting others to take care of them.

Where do such ideas come from? I have never met a coal miner who believed the world owed him a living—not my Dad, not my Uncle Ronnie at the bottom of Number 26 colliery, not any of my relatives who went down in the mine, not any of the miners on the street where I grew up, not any of the miners I know anywhere in Cape Breton. But what do I know? I am not a newspaper editorial writer or a television news anchor. I do not get paid to pontificate. I am a coal miner's daughter who grew up in Glace Bay.

I do not have the sensibilities of people who dig abstractions for a living. I know about the men who dig coal for a living in Cape Breton and what I know is that the last thing any of them ever got was a free ride. What I know is that they had worked like hell for every single thing they got and still do.

I know they did the best job in the world, year in and year out, until their bodies were broken by the work. The men took it and came back for more. They battled the bosses when they had to, but always did the work. Whatever it took to dig the coal, they did it. Through the long days of summer they did it. Through the short days of winter when they got up in the pitch black of the dying night to descend into the pitch black of the mines, finish their shift and come up as pitch black as the coal itself to the home in the pitch black of the new night, they did it.

They did it for their wives and the kids and for the almighty company overlords of the British Empire Steel and Coal Company and the Dominion Steel and Coal Company and the Cape Breton Development Corporation and for Canada. They did it to get a paycheque and earn their way. They went into deep, dark holes in the ground where the earth creaks and the pit props groan. They endured dust and heat and wet and cold and noise and vermin in a hell that no devil ever dreamed of. They gasped for air and staggered to the surface after bumps that squashed their friends to pulp or blew them to smithereens, turned around, worked in a rescue, cleaned it all up and then went back underground again. They did it to pay their way and because we counted on them to do it.

When the wars came, we implored them do to it. Coal was life and death. Coal was the margin of victory. Our world ran on coal. Every comfort, every convenience, every essential service was tied to coal and Cape Breton miners provided whole mountain ranges of it. They served us all well. They never, ever got something for nothing.

Clifford Frame, who built the Westray Mine that vaporised 26 miners in the early morning of May 9, 1992, got to walk away to live in the sunshine without a scratch. Miners were not that lucky.

They say Devco is unprofitable, whatever they mean considering the source and however significant such an assessment can be considering our island's political history. To date we have been left with only the word of the federal government. But if it truly is unprofitable, it is not because of the miners. God knows enough of them died trying to make it otherwise.

Taking away our living is an injury all Cape Bretoners will have to bear. Blaming us for the loss is an insult that sears our souls. It is cruel and callous to expect us to submit to the snide chiding of self-appointed pundits who see us as latter day cargo cult civilization, always watching the skies for gifts from the gods of government. Give us the respect we deserve. Do not add the indignity of insult to injury.

We earned everything we ever got. We earned it with our sweat, our blood and our tears—oceans of sweat, lakes of blood and rivers of tears. There was a time when it was enough to earn us a living. It should forever be enough to earn us respect.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to share the time with my colleague from Bras d'Or—Cape Breton. I do not have the direct ties to coal mining in my immediate family as does the hon. member who just preceded me and that is why she speaks about the issue so eloquently and so passionately.

Let me say very briefly why I was prompted, and I guess I would say provoked, to enter the debate that is before the House at this time. There are really three things that provoked me to do that. One was recognizing and watching the government invoke closure yet again, I think for the 65th time in this session if I am not mistaken, outdoing the Mulroney government's record for heavy handedness and disregard for the importance of dealing with an issue like this in a thorough and comprehensive way. What a legacy for the current federal Liberal government.

Second, I have been listening and watching members across the way, most recently the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development, talk about the lives and livelihoods of Cape Bretoners, in particular the miners and their families, as if they are a commodity, a commodity to be disposed of, to be traded away. The focus of attention has been so much on the notion of transferring assets, completing sales, finishing deals and finding buyers. If there were ever an eloquent reason for referring this legislation as the subamendment before us proposes to the human resources committee, it is that. We are talking about the future of a generation of people and the next generation coming from behind them.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development said “Well, I believe that Cape Bretoners are capable of adjusting to change”. You are darn right they are capable of adjusting to change, but we are talking about human lives being lived in a community and what the economy of that community is going to look like. This government does not even have the sensitivity or the decency to understand why issues as complex and as sensitive as this should be brought before the human resources committee.

This brings me to the third reason why I was provoked to enter this debate at this time. On Friday I was in Windsor, Ontario. I was participating in a forum, a teach-in really, around the upcoming meetings of the OAS that are going to take place in Windsor. One of the speakers at that forum was the president of the mine workers from Columbia. That trade unionist who risks his life to come and talk with us in Canada about what is happening to coal mining, not just in his own back yard, not just in his country, but around the world, used the issue of Devco and the government's handling of Devco as one of the most dramatic examples of what is wrong with the corporatization of our economy both locally and internationally.

What he described is absolutely true. While this government presides over the elimination of large numbers of jobs in the coal industry and puts at further risk the opportunity for future work in the coal mines by saying “Well, the private sector will do it just as Westray, the families of the survivors of Westray, did about the privatization of coal mines.

What this trade union leader from Columbia talked about is while the federal Liberal government knowingly puts the jobs and the futures of those coal miners of Cape Breton at risk, what it does is drive the race to the bottom and turn around and import the coal from Columbia, one of the worst countries in the world with regard to labour standards, working conditions and human rights.

I want to end by pleading with the federal Liberal government to understand the simple concept of treating the lives of Cape Bretoners and the future of those miners and their families, and others who are dependent upon the mining industry as a human issue to be considered by the human resources committee, not as a commodity, not just something to be traded away.

Our human resources are going to be the future of Cape Breton. It is high time the government understood that treating people with dignity recognizing that they are indeed a human resource is going to be the key to a prosperous and stable economy in Canada based on human rights and decent labour standards.

Let us refer this issue to the human resources committee.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

It being 6.15 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on the amendment to the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment to the amendment?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

All those in favour of the amendment to the amendment will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the amendment to the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)