Debates of June 1st, 2000

Treasury Board

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the Treasury Board Secretariat is always very involved in the government policies that relate to financial practices.

It is perfectly normal that, over the past two years, we have conducted a full review of the responsibilities of managers in the public service to update them.

It is in that context that, just today, we issued a new policy on transfers. We are also currently reviewing the internal audit policy.

[John Reynolds, Reform, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is pretty obvious that treasury board is more concerned about managing the spin than managing taxpayer dollars.

Officials are now suggesting that future audits need to be massaged to ensure that damning information is whitewashed. Senior policy analysts warn that it will be necessary to keep a closer eye on what is written in future audits.

I will ask the minister my question again. Why is the government more concerned about the political spin than about solving the problem of the billion dollar bungle?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the Canadian Alliance member should at least be able to recognize that it is a Treasury Board policy to allow, as soon as they are fully completed, internal audit reports to be made public without anyone even having to submit a request under the Access to Information Act.

If that is not a transparent policy, then what is? This is very clear, and this is how we intend to continue to improve our policies at Treasury Board.

Canada Information Office

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Public Works and Government Services has said that, since the CIO has been under his responsibility, no contracts have been awarded without tender. We would have to conclude that, before him, it was standard practice.

We have learned that, since he became responsible for the CIO on June 4, 1998, hundreds of thousands of dollars in contracts have been awarded without tender.

How much longer is the minister going to go on denying the facts, the figures, the numbers from his own department?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that the Canada Information Office has always awarded its contracts according to Treasury Board policy.

In addition, I would say to the leader of the Bloc Quebecois and to the House that on March 8, 1999 I sent a written directive to the CIO informing it that, effective April 1, 1999, any contract over $25,000 had to be put out to tender. Those are the facts.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That is very interesting, Mr. Speaker.

In other words, what the minister has just said is that he assumed responsibility for the CIO on June 4, 1998, and that the directive was issued eight months and six contracts later in March 1999.

Yesterday, the minister said that no contracts over $25,000 had gone out without tender. Will he admit today that it was only as of March 1999, and for practically one year, that he awarded contracts without tender? As for those after March 1999, we are still waiting on access to information, and we will see the outcome of that.

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that the CIO has always complied with Treasury Board policy and guidelines with respect to the delegation of authority. All contracts have been awarded in accordance with this policy.

In addition, it was on March 8, a few months later, that I said why we had to change this policy. On March 8, I issued a directive that any contract over $25,000 had to be put out to tender.

I can assure the House that, since April 1, 1999, all contracts in excess of $25,000 have been put out to tender.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the minister has just said he rigorously observes Treasury Board policies, I will point out that there are two main circumstances under which tenders are not called: when national security is at issue and when market conditions indicate that nothing would be saved by calling for tenders.

When the CIO awards a $27,000 contract without calling for tenders to Groupe Cible's Serge Paquette, a former Liberal candidate, to monitor the media, is this a matter of national security or market conditions?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that the CIO has always followed the delegation of authority policies of the Treasury Board with respect to contracts.

For two days, Serge Paquette has been the subject of discussion. I would remind the Bloc Quebecois House leader that Mr. Paquette was a candidate in 1988. Is he not entitled to earn a living, like other Canadians?

[An hon. member]

Not all Canadians get contracts.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to forget that Mr. Paquette was a candidate in 1988 if the government will forget it as well and have him go through the tender process. That would be fine. It would be excellent.

I ask the minister if he is prepared to forget all former candidates and Liberal members who systematically circumvent the tendering process and use public money to organize government propaganda in Quebec at our expense?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the member that contracts are awarded according to the ability of the individual and not his or her political stripe. He should take a look at the mother house in Quebec.

On the subject of the tour, allow me to read a few quotes from people who met the ministers during their tour, in a riding of the Bloc, the riding of Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière.

The president of the chamber of commerce of Quebec City's south shore, Réal Auclair, expressed his satisfaction at the results of the meeting held in Lévis between five ministers of the Chrétien government and some thirty representatives of the greater Quebec City area, gathered together in the Quebec committee—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.

Human Rights

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, with Canada chairing the upcoming OAS meetings in Windsor, the government has an opportunity to put human rights, not the free trade agreement of the Americas, front and centre.

Half of all trade unionists murdered in the world last year died in Colombia. Francisco Ramirez, the Colombian Mine Workers president, who met recently with foreign affairs officials, lives under constant threat from military sponsored death squads.

At this weeks OAS meetings what will Canada do to address the labour and human rights issues and, in particular, the case of Francisco Ramirez?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the issue of a free trade agreement of the Americas is not on the agenda of the OAS meeting in Windsor. In fact, the very kinds of issues she is talking about will be on the agenda.

I ask for her support to ensure that the discussions on strengthening human rights and strengthening democracy in the Americas will go forward in a constructive and peaceful fashion. Will she give that commitment today?

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, still in the context of the OAS meeting, with respect to the elections in Peru, the secretary of state said, and I quote:

Respect for democracy in the hemisphere is of vital importance to Canada.

These words, which we support, must be followed with specific action. What action will Canada propose to its OAS partners following the illegal elections in Peru?

[David Kilgour, Liberal, Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa)]

Mr. Speaker, I have to say to my colleague that the OAS meeting to be held in Windsor this weekend will give careful consideration to the question of Peru. It was the unanimous opinion of the permanent council yesterday in Washington that this matter must be considered in Windsor in the coming days.

Foreign Affairs

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for decades our foreign diplomats have served this country proudly and with distinction. However, last night the Prime Minister's nephew violated the fundamental rule of diplomacy and openly endorsed a U.S. presidential candidate.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister tell us when the government of Canada changed its policy to allow our diplomats to engage in partisan political politics of another country? Why not recall the nephew for a small chat about diplomacy?

[The Speaker]

I do not know that it is particularly pertinent that we have relatives in one place or another, so I ask hon. members to please state the titles of the people to whom they are referring.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, our ambassador to Washington is a professional diplomat of great distinction and long standing for many years dating back well before this administration took office.

I understand that our ambassador to Washington did not take a position on candidates in the American elections. In fact, his whole point was that whoever the American public chose, we would work with the government of that person and continue our strong and friendly relations with the United States.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the Deputy Prime Minister did not watch the program yesterday and that he did not review the tape this morning, as was urgently asked by officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs.

To ridicule a candidate while supporting another one and putting him on a pedestal is to make a choice. This goes completely against Canadian policy.

What does the ambassador want? Does he want the Democrat candidate to support the current Prime Minister during the next election campaign in Canada? What do we want here in Canada?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend is misstating what I understand the ambassador to have said.

He made some general comments about candidates and their approach in the past to Canada, but he was not stating a preference for one or the other. In fact his whole point was that whoever the Americans choose, Canada will continue its friendly relations with the United States and will work with the government in question.

The hon. member should recognize that instead of trying to engage in unworthy personal smears.

Treasury Board

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the treasury board memo on internal audits was written on February 18.

Barely a month after the billion dollar boondoggle was revealed, government managers in all departments were already trying to whitewash future audits. Let me quote, “From now on it will be necessary to keep a closer eye on what is written in these reports”.

Why is the government trying to whitewash future internal audits?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, again, we are absolutely transparent regarding our internal audit reports. We release them without anyone having to submit an access to information request.

Because of this policy of transparency, it is perfectly normal to demand that these reports be drafted by competent people and that Canadians be presented with well written reports.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that kind of accountability sounds more like censorship to me.

The treasury board memo warns about a government-wide backlash against internal audits. It was so concerned that it was planning to control the contents.

Why is the government more concerned about damage control than it is about spending control?