Mr. Speaker, a recurring theme around this place is that only in the dying days of a session would a debate like this take place. I guess what is worrisome to some members, and I could refer to the House leader of the NDP who just spoke, is that much of this debate takes place among House leaders but individual members of parliament are not involved. In fact most of us in this place, with the exception of the House leaders and very few others, would have no idea of what is being debated today. It is brought in a fashion to allow the expedient passage of the changes to the members' pension plan.
What has to happen is that there has to be transparency, not only for the public but for members of parliament.
The hon. member from Nova Scotia next to me and I found a glitch in some of the numbers that are being presented as part of the package. There are some inequities that involve certain members of parliament, myself included.
If we are going to talk seriously about this, we must have some notice of what is on the table, what is being discussed. We are talking about individual members of parliament, their retirement packages and what their families or they themselves will be left with when they leave this House, provided they can leave this place alive.
I know we do not want to get into too much of the politics of this issue, but there is at least one party in the House that has swallowed itself whole on the pension issue. I am speaking about the Canadian Alliance party, formerly known as the Reform Party. Again, we are talking about goodwill and even personal goodwill from the reformers, if some of these inequities are going to be changed. One might say I am going to be shooting myself in the foot, because they are not going to show much generosity to me as an individual member of parliament if I cannot show it to them.
I want to put on the record how some of this stuff started and what their position was on the pension issue a few short years ago prior to the 1993 election. In fairness, many people come to this place not really knowing what the job entails. They come not knowing what sacrifices they make as individual members of parliament when they leave their jobs, their careers, their farms or their businesses behind. Many members of parliament do that.
We can argue that members of parliament are overpaid. We can say that I am personally overpaid or that other members are overpaid, but there are members on both sides of the House who are certainly working below what they would get in the private sector. We all know that. Many members made more in remuneration in their private lives than they are making as members of parliament. Sometimes we have good fortune in the marketplace and sometimes not as good, but on a yearly basis in terms of compensation, many members can certainly exceed what they are paid as members of parliament.
When they came to the House, many members did not realize they would be taking a pay cut, because what a member of parliament gets paid and what the pension will be all looks pretty good from the outside. That is the feeling of many members in what was then known as the Reform Party.
Mr. Speaker, I do not see any quotes here that are attributed to you. I think being a former businessman and understanding the pitfalls involved in the business of politics that you had pretty good idea of what you were getting into. Therefore, I do not think you were one of those who railed against the so-called pension scheme.
I want to quote the former leader of the Reform Party, the man who is now seeking the leadership of the Canadian Alliance party. It is a quote from Preston Manning which I am reading from the Vancouver Sun of September 28.