Madam Speaker, I know that the hon. member from the Canadian Alliance would like to change the subject to something dealing with the economy instead of dealing with whether or not they are going to take a pension.
I want the member to know that when Brian Mulroney became the Prime Minister there was a $39 billion debt that was left to him by Pierre Elliot Trudeau. A $39 billion debt was left to the PC Party by Pierre Elliot Trudeau and no one even talks about it.
Back in the maritimes there is no prayer for the Canadian Alliance because our people understand the different regions of Canada and that different needs in different regions must be addressed. I look at the flip-flops that have come from members of the official opposition, and they even flip-flop on their own name. They flip-flop on everything. They flipped out of the pension plan. Now they would like to flip-flop back into the pension plan. They flipped out from the Reform Party name and went to another name and I believe they said it was CCRAP. We did not say it; they said it. Now they are down to Canadian Alliance. They are flip-flopping all over the place. The stability is gone. People have seen it and we know that.
When it comes to the pension plan, certainly as our House leader stated tonight, we feel they should all have had a pension. Certainly they should have been in the pension plan. There is no question about it. There is no reason in the world for them not to be in it. We could change it so that no one gets a pension until a certain age. It was 60 for me. Now it is down to 55 and the majority of the people do not get one when they leave here.
There have been major changes that have come about. In the class of 1988 the immediate pension was about $37,000. Now the immediate pension is around $18,000 or $19,000. That is only since the class of 1993. There have been major changes and people in all communities across the nation respect that.