Debates of June 5th, 2000

Environment Week

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to celebrate Canadian Environment Week, which will end on June 8.

As members know, technological developments and globalization have triggered an increasing number of environmental problems. Unfortunately, the government seems to be putting more emphasis on exports and international trade than on the protection of our environment.

As former Quebec premier Pierre-Marc was reported as saying in an article published today in La Presse , “We must not isolate trade policies from social and environmental concerns”. This is the perspective in which we must work for the sustainable development of our planet.

It is my hope that this Environment Week will be an opportunity to work toward that goal. Promoting public transportation or creating new and less polluting fuels are excellent ways to promote a happy combination of the environment and the economy.

I thank all those who will take part in this Environment Week.

Human Resources Development

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, on February 9 the HRD minister was asked when she was first advised about the now famous internal HRD audit. She said “I received a briefing on the full internal audit on November 17”. I bet she did. Now we know that her office was told at least a month before that.

I will give the minister an opportunity to clarify it now. Does the minister really expect us to believe that all senior ranks in her department, as well as her own personal staff, knew about that audit but she did not?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, surprise, surprise, the Canadian Alliance members and their favourite national tabloid have discovered that meetings do take place in my department, that people do come in from out of town to attend those meetings and that e-mails are exchanged. They even report information that has been a matter of public knowledge for months, that I was briefed on November 17.

Clearly there was work being done in my department on the internal audit before the audit was completed and before I was briefed. That is as it should be.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, before she was briefed. In fact, the access to information response that we have said that she asked to be briefed on “hot issues” only.

On August 9 she received that briefing on the transitional jobs fund, the Canada jobs fund, as well as grants and contributions. That was a week after 40 senior officials met for two days to discuss that crisis. They knew what was hot. On August 9 the minister was briefed.

Why does the minister keep pretending that she only knew about it in November?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, because that is true.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, that may be, but we would like to know what they discussed.

For the upcoming briefing of Monday, August 9 the first items of business were the TJF, CJF and grants and contributions.

The minister says now that she got a briefing on it, but we have been hearing her say for months that basically the first she knew of it was November 17.

The government has bungled $1 billion. That is a hot issue. How hot does it have to be before the minister will stand and admit that she burned Canadians badly?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the party opposite continues to come to the House and take things out of context.

They talk about draft reports. They talk about e-mails. They talk about all kinds of information from the past that is now part of the public record.

What they refuse to talk about is the fact that my department made 10,000 pages of information public which indicated that grants and contributions are invested in ridings right across this country, not just government ridings.

What they refuse to talk about is the fact that my department has reviewed 17,000 files and found that $1 billion is not missing.

When will they come clean and tell the Canadian public—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary—Nose Hill.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, HRD documents tell us the following: on June 14, 1999 interim audit results were presented; on July 14, 1999 the proposed action plan was produced; on July 27, 1999 there was a two day meeting of 40 top HRD officials; and on August 9, 1999 the minister was briefed on hot issues only at her request.

In light of this document and record of intense activity and focus on the boondoggle audit, is the minister seriously asking Canadians to believe that it was not part of her August 9 briefing?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, preliminary work was undertaken in the department before the internal audit was complete. That is as it should be. The department came to me when the audit was complete and a management response had been added to it. That is as it should be. The process that was undertaken was as it should be.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister did not answer the question as to whether this boondoggle audit was part of her August 9 briefing. We have a copy of the briefing schedule. “Note to file: Minister Stewart was briefed on hot issues only at her request. She preferred knowing what balls were in the air”.

Was this ball, which was clearly in the air, not even mentioned at her August 9 briefing? Is that what she is telling Canadians?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let me repeat what I have said on a number of occasions and what is clear from the report in the National Post today. I was briefed on November 17.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources Development has told the House repeatedly, and again today, that she was not made aware of the problems in her department until November 17, 1999, although she was sworn in on August 3 of that year.

Would the minister have us believe that, when she first took up her duties, she did not receive this kind of briefing from her deputy minister? Did nobody warn her about what was going on in her department? Was there never any mention of the final report of October 5 before November 17? Is that really what the minister would have us believe?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the questions being raised today are old news. They are a matter of public record. We have been through this on a number of occasions.

I was briefed on November 17. At that time I indicated that I wanted a stronger response from the department. When that was complete we made the internal audit public. Since that time considerable work has been undertaken in the department, not only to share with the House where grants and contributions are—and I repeat that they are in every riding of members of the House—but also we have reviewed 17,000 files and found that there is $6,500 outstanding.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what is new today is that there are revelations, facts, and documents we have obtained through access to information to prove what we have been saying for several weeks, if not months, now.

What is not new are the minister's evasive answers. What is not new is her wish to conceal the facts, and what went on in her department.

Does she realize that the only honourable thing left for her to do is to resign, because nobody believes her?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I think what Canadians appreciate is the fact that I and my department made clear to them that there were improvements we could make in managing our paper. We made that public. I think what Canadians appreciate is that we have a plan of action that is supported by the auditor general to ameliorate the difficulties.

I think what Canadians also know when they look at the report that I made to the standing committee is that this is not about $1 billion missing, as the opposition continues to suggest. Rather, it is about a department that is fully prepared to improve its administrative practices in support of the grants and contributions that make such a difference in the lives of—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Roberval.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the noose is tightening around the neck of the Minister of Human Resources Development.

On June 14, 1999, a preliminary report was tabled. On July 27, 40 public servants from all over Canada were brought to Ottawa, to the department, to be briefed on what was going on in Human Resources Development Canada. On August 3, the minister was sworn in and received a briefing.

How can she have us believe that neither the PMO nor the former minister, who was aware of the situation, nor the Deputy Minister, who organized meetings of staff to inform them, could not have taken the trouble to inform her, the minister, the person supposedly responsible for the department, that there was a problem at Human Resources Development Canada?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let us review the process again. Indeed, the department was doing preliminary work on an internal audit that was not complete until late in the fall. Indeed, the department made sure that the audit was finished and the management response which they wanted to provide me was complete before they brought it to me. That is the appropriate process.

When I received their work I said that I wanted a stronger management report. That was prepared and when that was done we made the whole thing public. Subsequent to that we have made significant progress in improving the administration of grants and contributions.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what we see happening today is enough to make a person totally lose hope.

Either the minister is the one who co-ordinated the game of hide-and-seek that has been going on in Human Resources Development Canada for more than a year now, or she has been the puppet of the PMO and of her own Deputy Minister, who preferred to bring 40 public servants together from all over Canada in order to speak to them of the problems at HRDC instead of speaking to the new minister about them.

Either way, whether she is the puppet or the puppet master, she must resign.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I completely reject the premise of the hon. member's question.

Again let me convey to him the process as it was undertaken. The department was completing an internal audit. In the context of that it was doing preliminary work. Beyond that, once the internal audit was complete, and once the management response was prepared, it was provided to me and I received a full briefing on November 17.

Human Rights

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, last week the Deputy Prime Minister assured the House that the focus of the OAS meetings in Windsor would be human security, not the trade agenda. He said that issues like the case of Francisco Ramirez would be on the agenda. He is the Colombian labour leader who was being pursued by paramilitary death squads.

I ask the acting prime minister, has Canada gone beyond vague generalities and raised the case of Francisco Ramirez? What measures is Canada proposing to safeguard human security through the OAS?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister outlined the government's approach to this matter, and contrary to the assertion of my friend opposite, the economic agenda did not dominate, as the Deputy Prime Minister said last week. Human rights and democracy were foremost on the minds of all there and were mentioned by the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister talked about the inclusiveness of societies in the OAS empowering citizens to deal with civil society. He talked about people not being left behind by the technological revolution. He wanted all people to share in the benefits of society.

I think it was a very successful conference, and Canada led—

[The Speaker]

The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it was very important that 3,000 Canadians were there to help stiffen the backbone of the government to provide some input on human rights issues.

Over 90 trade union leaders in Colombia alone have been murdered in the past year. Assurances were given that the human rights agenda was the one that would predominate, and yet, in his only speech to delegates, the Prime Minister went on at considerable length about trade and the free trade agreement of the Americas and all but ignored human rights.

My question for the government is why?