Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-38, a bill on the reform of financial institutions and banks.
This is a bill that has been talked about for a long time. Much has been written, much uproar has ensued. It has triggered much action and reaction, and one could say we are late in doing something, because globalization and the inevitable competition between major partners are among the challenges in the world context which is about to become ours, if it is not already.
On a number of occasions, the Bloc Quebecois has intervened in this regard. But here we are now faced with the bill as a fait accompli, and the government seems to be a rush to get it passed, so we are taking part in the debate.
I have not come with the bill in hand, since it is 900 pages long. It is not something everyone will read, but it is a bill that creates rights we find insufficient. We therefore wish to put on the record that, if the corrections we will be proposing at the report stage do not get through, we will be forced to vote against the bill. I do, however, wish to state right off that this bill contains a number of improvements with which we agree.
We note, for example, that the Minister of Finance has incorporated the recommendation made by Henri-Paul Rousseau that the financial institutions, insurance companies and various institutions be allowed to join together against foreign competition. He has added this to his bill, and we acknowledge that it was not in the original.
Let us now look at what is wrong, totally wrong, with this bill. First, I must say that, generally speaking, the powers given to the minister in the bill are way too broad and pervasive. Because of this discretionary power, there are still many provisions whose meaning remain unclear, since the minister may, on his own initiative, change what they appear to mean.
Generally speaking—and once again, the Bloc will propose amendments—we would like more clarity regarding the processes and also more specifics regarding certain concepts, such as the low-fee retail deposit accounts for the poor.
This issue of discretionary power is very important to us, especially since it will touch upon what is at the heart of our opposition, that is the transformation of the ownership rules for the National Bank, in Quebec.
Another aspect shocked us. The hon. members will understand that, having been my party's critic on Bill C-54 concerning the protection of personal information—which is, in fact, a provincial jurisdiction—I am extremely sensitive to the fact that this bill is again creating overlapping by directing how consumers should be protected. It is not that we do not want consumers to be protected when they deal with financial institutions, but we know that they are better protected by Quebec laws.
And there are many in this area. There are the Privacy Act, the Act respecting Insurance, the Act respecting Trust Companies, the Quebec Savings Banks Act and the Credit and Securities Act, to name a few. There is also the privacy bill, which is undergoing radical change in order to take into account the impact of electronic commerce. This is a very interesting bill.
Why oppose a bill supposedly intended to protect consumers? For an extraordinarily simple reason: because consumer protection legislation has to be simple and easy to understand and to enforce. It must be easy and simple for consumers to understand what their rights are and how they can ensure they will be upheld.
Quebec's privacy law is cited all over the world for its clarity, for the ease with which the citizens can win their case, and for its ongoing implementation in Quebec.
When a citizen has a problem and wonders “Under which act am I protected? What are my rights? Are these rights provided under the Credit and Securities Act or under the Privacy Act?”, there is a problem. This grey area, which could even make it possible to make a complaint under both acts, but also to miss deadlines at one point or another, is not a good way to protect consumers. The Bloc Quebecois will certainly follow this situation very closely.
I would be remiss if I did not talk about the whole issue of community investment. As my colleagues said before me, the hon. member for Hochelaga—Maisonneuve has conducted a remarkable campaign on the necessity for the banks to assume greater responsibilities in depressed communities and in isolated areas experiencing economic difficulties.
In fact, banks should systematically invest in communities, because they do benefit from regulatory protection. They should therefore agree to assume responsibility for the impacts of their activities on consumers, constituencies, regions, the environment and this, of course, in each of the provinces.
Our colleague argued that banks have an unfortunate tendency to avoid depressed communities and to prefer economically healthy areas. When they choose to stay in a depressed community because there are profits to be made, there is generally no correlation between the amounts of the deposits they take in and the amounts they give out in loans and cash advances.
Our colleague's system is based on American legislation passed in 1970, which completely changed the relationship between the banks and the citizens namely by forcing representatives of the citizens and of the banks to sit together and look at how they could help improve the situation of the most disadvantaged in the community.
We know that the first thing to do to help those persons is to allow them to open a bank account. That is the very first step. The bill provides for a low-fee deposit account.
However, since the application of this provision and its real content are not known, we say that until we know we are concerned, because I think everyone was made aware by the campaign, and at that time, not just by our colleague from Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, by the need to ensure that everyone can at least open a bank account.
All members know that this is far from being a sure thing and that the reasons given or not given have to do with income, length of employment, credit cards, which we can or cannot show, to prove our solvency.
It is an issue we consider very important, and we think that the bill would be vastly improved if it contained a provision that would permit something similar to what is done in the States—when the States has good things to offer, we should use them—that would permit dialogue as is the case with other businesses and other representatives of the public to ensure that these financial players help the poor.
The ombudsman is a step in the right direction, but it is far from enough. I note that up to now, the ombudsman has been appointed by the banks. When I sat on the Standing Committee on Industry, I heard the banks regularly defending their record on loans to SMBs. I myself bore witness to the fact that the ombudsman had good intentions, but lacked authority because he was appointed by the banks.
The points causing the greatest difficulty are extremely important for the Bloc Quebecois.
Since the majority of Quebec members are from the Bloc Quebecois, we can argue that we are talking on behalf of Quebec. We can question the change this bill makes to the ownership rule for the big banks. But where the ownership of the only big bank in Quebec, the National Bank, is concerned, we cannot support the change the Minister of Finance is proposing in this bill. We said so loud and clear and we will come back to this issue.
For the benefit of our fellow citizens watching the debate I would like to mention that up until now, the Bank Act provided for the splitting of the shares by prohibiting any single individual from owning more than 10% of the shares and having control over the banking industry, which could have been risky for businesses as well as for the economy and consumers.
Because of pressures exerted upon him and changes in the world economy, the minister has decided that a single shareholder can now own 20% as opposed to only 10% previously. You can rest assured that we will discuss and question this decision. That change affects the big Canadian banks only.
But why allow a single shareholder to own up to 65% of the shares of the only big bank in Quebec, the National Bank? When we think about all the risks this reform would involve, we do not understand.
Looking at history, we can see that Quebec has experienced serious problems over the years in exercising relative control over its economy. One of the main reasons for that, at the beginning of the century and before that, was the lack of capital. The popular phrase then was “French Canadian” or “controlled by French Canadians”.
According to historians, the collapse of Quebec-owned businesses after World War I was due to the fact that, because of the change and because of insufficient funding, all those businesses were bought by British or American capital.
Many economists—and I am thinking of the École des hautes études commerciales where so many economists and businessmen have received their training—began to understand that Quebec needed its own capital. Jacques Parizeau, distinguished professor at the École des hautes études commerciales, is among those who were taught by François-Albert Auger and others. So it is a good thing that we now have the National Bank and the Caisse de dépôt et placement, as well as the Fonds de solidarité and the Fonds d'actions, which came later.
We know that venture capital is now available in Quebec. The National Bank is one important element of this trilogy and we will not let it become vulnerable to foreign control, which could even lead to its dismantling. It could be taken over just to create competition. I will add that one extremely important characteristic of the National Bank is the fact that it caters to the needs of small and medium size businesses.
Of course other banks do get involved, but it is the small and medium size businesses' bank. We know to what extent they are part of the Quebec economy and its distinct nature. For this reason, we must protect the National Bank against being owned by one individual, which could result in a change in its original, main vocation, and worse yet in its being taken over by foreign interests.
We will fight tooth and nail to avoid this, and I believe Quebec and Quebecers will be behind us to oppose others who might favour interests other than those of the small and medium size businesses and their ability to access capital and use it through a bank such as the National Bank.
I could mention other elements of the legislation, but my colleagues and I wanted to stress the essential. The members of our party who sit on the Standing Committee on Finance will work very hard, as usual, but I wanted to say that they will have the strong support of all the members of the Bloc Quebecois and also, we are convinced, of Quebecers.
I might add that the Quebec government, through Mr. Landry, was very clear and suggested adding to the minister's discretionary criteria four other criteria that would be more definite and that would stress the link between the economic situation, employment and services. It is surprising that these criteria are not included in the basic criteria the finance minister is looking at in his bill.
Mr. Speaker, I thank you for your attention. It is always a help for us members of parliament, when we need to be convincing, to be able to address not the Chair, but the Speaker himself, who might even enjoy from time to time the fact that we are really addressing our remarks to him.