Mr. Speaker, I am pleased today to speak to the motion by my colleague for St. Albert, the present chair of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, of which I have been a member for the past year, within the second mandate entrusted to me by the people of Lotbinière-L'Érable.
I have had numerous opportunities to comment on auditor general reports, in particular those by Mr. Denis Desautels, who left that position last spring.
On many occasions, Mr. Desautels criticized the behaviour of the present government, and in particular the accounting system used by the Minister of Finance, who has often been faulted for his lack of accuracy in his budget statements to this very House of Commons since his appointment in the fall of 1993.
Last March, in his document “Reflections on a Decade of Serving Parliament”, Mr. Desautels described his experiences as auditor general, concluding that the power of elected representatives over budget choices and budget monitoring had decreased considerably. He voiced serious reservations concerning the creation of various crown corporations or agencies to replace existing departments.
Indirectly, the creation of these new government organizations prevented him from doing his job properly, given the administrative restrictions included in the statutes and regulations of those organizations.
I would like to draw to your attention the following comments by Mr. Desautels, first of all on the accountability of crown corporations:
I encourage Parliament to be more active in calling Crown corporations to account for their performance, their effectiveness in fulfilling their mandates, and the ongoing relevance of their mandates
In connection with the matter of control and accountability, he continues by saying:
As government moves more and more to delivery of services by arm's-length entities, it is essential that it do so with provisions for sound control and accountability. I urge it to draw on the successful accountability and control framework for Crown corporations and similarly establish new alternative service delivery and governance arrangements—many of which are now operating without an adequate regime of accountability and control.
Mr. Desautels' concern about the creation of crown corporations or agencies in place of departments is clearly reflected in the following comment:
Further, when the federal government reorganizes, it can create other problems. In 1997 the government established the Canadian Food Inspection Agency as a separate employer, merging parts of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Health Canada and Fisheries and Oceans.
These three departments transferred over 4,500 employees to the new Agency and expenditures of about $330 million a year. The Agency was granted certain freedoms to manage its finances, human resources and contracting, in return for improving accountability through a corporate plan that included objectives, performance expectations and an annual report on its actual achievements. After three years, the Agency still is not providing a clear and complete picture of its performance to allow Parliament and others to judge how well it has carried out its role.
As regards the new Canada Customs and Revenue Agency, Mr. Desautels expected more concrete results, this time:
In creating the new Canada Customs and Revenue Agency, the stated goal again was to improve services to Canadians. Eligible taxpayers wanted their child tax credits returned faster, importers wanted faster clearance of goods at the border, and corporate taxpayers wanted audits to be expeditious. While the structure set up to manage the new Agency appears sound, its first performance report is not due until later this year.
This report has yet to be published.
The former auditor general also commented that the government must ensure good management of its operations and support its ministers in this regard. Once again, I quote Mr. Desautels:
The federal government does not have a head office like those of corporations; our system of government makes Cabinet ministers individually accountable for many of the government's activities and collectively responsible for many important decisions. Nevertheless, to be efficient the government must co-ordinate the management of its operations and help departments improve their management practices.
Mr. Desautels spoke as well of his concern about the transparency of crown corporations and their finances. I conclude with the final remarks of the auditor general. On the need for transparency, he said:
Special examinations, agency performance reports, and the annual financial report by the Minister of Finance could all be used better to open up the operations of government to Canadians.
I took the time to cite the main themes of the report marking the departure of Mr. Desautels, because the motion being debated today relates to the comments made by the former auditor general. In the context of this motion, we are also addressing the report entitled “Completing the Circle of Control”, a report tabled by the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, which proposes a solution for consolidating follow-up of the estimates by each of the standing committees of the House of Commons.
In its introduction, the report alleges that, according to a number of witnesses, departments and officials often consider appearances before the a committee to discuss spending to be a real trial. Sometimes members seem unaware of the efforts made by the departments to provide their services, despite cuts, or of the difficulty of the decisions to be made when plans and priorities are being set.
Oftentimes, in committees, witnesses and experts debate broad policy thrusts, passing quickly over the whole matter of estimates follow-up. The report is clear in this regard in pointing out that, since 1968, the standing committees of the House have examined the estimates. This is the most efficient way to put government requests for funds under the detailed scrutiny required. However, it has been clearly established that, in recent years, the standing committees have devoted little effort to this aspect of their work.
Let us come back now to the recommendations in the report by the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. The committee given the task of analyzing this situation undertook the task with three objectives, namely to increase individual member participation in the working involved in budget forecasts and supply, to increase the House's ability to demand an accounting from the government and to better examine the government's estimates.
For, with the way things are organized at the moment, the estimates of each department and agency are sent automatically to the standing committee involved. Although it is very logical, this approach, as indicated in the document under debate today, has had very disappointing results. Therefore, a new committee must be set up with very specific objectives and terms of reference, as indicated in the document we are considering today, to be called the standing committee on the estimates.
This new committee would have the mandate to examine the estimates and supply review process and to report to the House on at least an annual basis on the operation and improvement of the process; to provide, upon request, advice and support to standing committees engaged in the review of the estimates; to review certain estimates and proposed expenditures on a program basis when more than one department or agency in responsible for delivery, with the agreement and support of the appropriate standing committees; to review the mechanisms used by crown corporations to report to parliament and to its committees on their annual projected expenditures; to coordinate its activities with those of the Standing Committee on Finance and the Standing Committee on Public Accounts to avoid overlap and duplication; and to sit jointly with these committees to discuss common issues.
I will elaborate on several of these recommendations. Since time is limited, I will give another example of the importance of this committee. This standing committee on the estimates would make recommendations so that a maximum of 5% of the amount of the credits for each of the estimates could be reallocated. If the government rejects these recommendations, it should justify its attitude right here in the House.
I feel that this report and its conclusion to establish a standing committee on the estimates would be a step forward to improve democracy in this parliament. This is why my party supports this motion.