Debates of Oct. 23rd, 2001

Foreign Missions and International Organizations Act

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, members of the Canadian Alliance and the member for Saskatoon--Wanuskewin will be voting nay to the motion.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the members of the Bloc Quebecois will be voting in favour of this motion.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, members of the NDP are voting no to the motion.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, members of the opposition coalition vote no to the motion.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

[The Speaker]

I declare the motion carried.

The next question is on the main motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Speaker]

All those in favour will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Speaker]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Speaker]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

[Marlene Catterall, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I think you would find consent in the House that the vote on the previous motion be applied to the vote now before the House.

[The Speaker]

Is it agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

[The Speaker]

I declare the motion carried. Accordingly the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade.

(Bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

[The Speaker]

It being 5.55 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Armenia

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

moved:

That this House recognize the Armenian genocide of 1915 and condemn this act as a crime against humanity.

Madam Speaker, it is with some emotion that I rise this evening to begin this first and only hour of debate on Motion No. 328, which reads as follows: “That this House recognize the Armenian genocide of 1915 and condemn this act as a crime against humanity”.

It is on the strength of the support of the parliamentary arm of the Bloc Quebecois and with the support of many colleagues of all political allegiances that I speak to members in the hope of drawing their attention in this House so that all together we finally, may act responsibly, with compassion and justice.

The term “genocide” at the heart of this motion was used for the first time by Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin, who said, in 1943:

By “genocide” we mean the destruction of a nation or an ethnic group...In general, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation. It means, rather, a co-ordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves.

Two years later, in 1945, the term “genocide” was included in the indictment by the Nuremburg tribunal at the trial of Nazi war criminals. It provided that the accused “...conducted deliberate and systematic genocide, viz., the extermination of racial and national groups, against the civilian populations of certain occupied territories...national, racial or religious groups”.

A few years later, in 1948, the term “genocide” was given a legal definition by the convention on the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide, which was ratified by Turkey just 50 years ago this year. Its use by governments in the recognition of the tragedy suffered by the Armenian people is not without significance, as is the refusal to apply it.

Did the Armenian genocide occur? Some people deny it. However, internationally renowned historians, whose reputations are beyond doubt, confirm that the events of 1915 and 1916 were indeed genocide.

Indeed the operation planned by the prefect of the Constantinople police, Bedri Bey, for the night of April 24-25 was intended to eliminate the Armenian elite. On that night and during the days that followed, some 600 persons, intellectuals, writers, poets, journalists, physicians, priests and lawyers were imprisoned, gagged and unable to alert international opinion to the massacre being prepared.

Arnold Toynbee, a world renowned British historian, estimated that two out of three Armenians living in the Ottoman empire were killed or died while being deported. The final death toll was 1.2 million. Yves Ternon, author of Les Arméniens: histoire d'un génocide , also estimated that two-thirds of the Armenian community was killed, although he based his figures on the official Ottoman census, which listed the number of Armenians living in the Ottoman Republic in 1914 at 1,295,000.

In 1919, Turkey's minister of the interior placed the number of dead at 800,000. Nowadays, the figure given by Toynbee is used.

The Armenian genocide did indeed take place. It was deliberately and knowingly orchestrated by a government which, in an enactment dated May 27, 1915, authorized the deportation of the Armenians, thus giving the insidious go ahead for the massacre of over one million people. The deportation was a legal cover and orders to execute were given in secret.

I would like to read a few lines from a letter addressed to U.S. President Wilson by a German Red Cross officer named Armin Wagner:

After depriving them of leaders and spokespersons, the executioners drove the populations out of the cities at all hours of the day and night. Groups which had numbered in the thousands when they set out from their homeland in Upper Armenia were down to a few hundred upon arriving in the outskirts of Aleppo, but the fields were littered with corpses.

The deportees were forced onto the highways until thousands were reduced to hundreds, and hundreds to a small band, which was still hunted down until it no longer existed. And then, they had reached their final destination.

When one knows that the ultimate destination of the deportees' long journey was the Deir Ez Zor desert in Syria and not the lush banks of the Euphrates, how can one not see that the purpose of this deportation was none other than the final solution, death?

How can survivors of this massacre be expected to forget? Seeing the calm tenacity with which they seek to have the Armenian genocide recognized, Hitler's cynicism just a few days before the invasion of Poland by troops of the Third Reich, can only horrify us.

In fact, in front of his staff on April 22, 1939, Hitler did not hesitate to ask if anyone still remembered the extermination of the Armenians.

Foreshadowing the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide is the first genocide of the 20th century. There is no excuse for refusing to use the term “genocide” to describe the terrible catastrophe that the Armenian people experienced in 1915-1916. Many parliaments have recognized this genocide, including the parliaments of Russia, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, Lebanon, Belgium, Argentina, Uruguay and Australia.

The European parliament and the UN Commission on Human Rights have also recognized it. More recently, on January 18, 2001, it was France's turn. Legislation was passed unanimously by the national assembly and the Senate.

In North America, the states of California, Delaware, Massachusetts and New York have also recognized the genocide. The Quebec national assembly and the legislature of Ontario have done the same. Given that the populations of Quebec and Ontario combined account for 60% of the population of Canada, it is hard to understand why Canada still refuses to describe the Armenian genocide as such, and refers to it instead as a tragic event.

Why is the Canadian government so cautious? One can only speculate. Perhaps the Armenian diaspora living in Canada does not have enough demographic clout. There are more than 100,000 Armenians living in Canada; 60,000 of them are in Montreal and Laval and the rest live in the Toronto area.

Being lucky enough to live in close proximity to the Armenian community in Laval, I can say, to their credit, that they have done a wonderful job of integrating into their host community. They have every reason to be proud of their social and economic contributions.

The reputation of the Armenian community in the arts is well established. Take the example of Maryvonne Kendergie, a well-known musicologist who, through her teaching and boundless energy, has made a major contribution to the field of contemporary music.

Filmmaker Atom Egoyan, whose talent is celebrated, joins other renowned artists such as conductor Rafi Armenian, soprano Isabel Bayrakdarian, violinist Catherine Manoukian and Yousef Karsh, the extraordinary photographer who took the famous picture of Winston Churchill.

I believe we owe it to Canadians and Quebecers of Armenian origin to officially recognize the genocide of 1915. Is it completely farfetched to think that some diplomatic reservations based on economic considerations might weigh in the balance? If so, how can we explain the numerous European countries in relative proximity to Turkey having had the courage to do so? And what about the European parliament, which after recognizing the Armenian genocide on June 18, 1987, reaffirmed in connection with the discussions around Turkey's membership in the European Union the necessity for the latter to recognize the Armenian genocide.

Moreover, paragraph 10 of the resolution passed November 15, 2000, contains the following:

Calls, therefore, on the Turkish Government and the Turkish Grand National Assembly to give fresh support to the Armenian minority, as an important part of Turkish society, in particular by public recognition of the genocide which that minority suffered before the establishment of the modern state of Turkey

Is Canada going to wait until Turkey recognizes this reality before adding its voice to those of the other parliaments?

Since 1993, the question of genocide has been debated a number of times before this House. The Bloc Quebecois position has always been clear. It has made us the target of objections from the Turkish embassy. It is was easy to imagine what comments were directed to the party in power. I have trouble, however, believing that a country like Canada, whose commitment to human rights is well known, would bow to diplomatic representations on something of such gravity.

It is noteworthy that, following the adoption of its legislation by the French national assembly, the government of France stated that it made a clear distinction between the Ottoman empire and contemporary Turkey.

After the political recognition by the various states and international organizations, I would like to touch on another recognition before I close. This was the position of Pope John Paul II. On November 27, 2000, the Pontiff signed a final declaration on the occasion of the visit to the Vatican of His Holiness Karekin II, Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of All Armenians, whose apostolic church comprises seven million faithful. The text could not be any clearer. The following are just a few excepts from it:

The extermination of a million and a half Armenians, generally considered genocide, and the annihilation of thousands more under a totalitarian regime are tragedies which must still live on in the memories of the present generation.

In these troubled times, the recent visit to Armenia by Pope John Paul II, which coincides with the 1700th anniversary of the adoption of Christianity by Armenians, has a very special significance.

Some were disappointed that the Pope did not use the term “genocide” in his sermon at the mausoleum. He preferred to use the expression “Metz Yeghern”, the great catastrophe. For 86 years, these words have described, among Armenian families, the 1915 genocide.

The international press reported on the intense emotion that could be felt when Pope John Paul II read the names of the 29 martyr cities of the genocide, including Ani, Marach, Var and Mouch.

It goes without saying that this visit by John Paul II was criticized by the Turkish diplomacy, which expressed to the Vatican ambassador in Ankara its “consternation following the condemnation by John Paul II of the Armenian genocide”.

It is certainly no coincidence that, on October 7, John Paul II beatified Archbishop Ignazio Maloyan, the Armenian Archbishop of Mardin, Turkey, who was killed with 400 faithful during the 1915 genocide.

The pope said “Faced with the dangers of persecution, the blessed Ignazio did not make any compromise. Let his example inspire those who, today, want to be true witnesses of the Gospel”.

Six weeks to the day, America and the whole world found themselves in the eye of the storm. Through very well orchestrated actions, terrorism fully showed its anger and hate with total disregard for innocent victims and their grieving families.

The purpose of these actions was to destabilize our capitalist society. Since then, our outlook on things has changed, because beyond the actions, we have a duty to understand, so as to fully assume our responsibility to the poor on this planet.

In 1915, a deliberate action effectively destroyed a community to destabilize the Armenian society.

I call upon the will of my colleagues so that we finally recognize the Armenian genocide.

Committees of the House

[Aileen Carroll, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Madam Speaker, prior to speaking this evening, I would seek unanimous consent of the House for a motion. I move:

That the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration be authorized to travel to Vancouver, Winnipeg, Windsor, St. John, New Brunswick and Montreal from October 29 to November 1 in relation to its study on security at ports of entry in Canada and that the necessary staff accompany the committee.

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Armenia

[Aileen Carroll, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for sharing her views concerning the events of 1914 to 1925, during the closing years of the Ottoman empire, which claimed so many victims and had such a devastating impact on the Armenian people and other peoples in the region.

It was a period of history when so many atrocities were committed. Our previous debates and the moving addresses made in the House by a number of members have given many of us a better grasp of the magnitude of those events and of the suffering endured by Armenians and other groups who were displaced by the millions.

Members may recall that on the occasion of the 80th anniversary of the Armenian tragedy of 1915, the Prime Minister spoke to Canada's Armenian communities in these terms:

Canada recognizes and deplores the fact that a great number of Armenians were killed during the wars which marked the end of the Ottoman empire and extends its sympathy to the Armenian Community. Following the war, numerous displaced Armenians came to Canada and their contribution, as well as that of their descendants, has greatly enriched Canadian society. It is my hope that the memories of the past will serve to remind us of the importance of tolerance and respect for the diversity of our people.

Members may also recall that on June 10, 1999, following comprehensive consultations, the position of the Government of Canada with regard to these events was set out in a statement made in the House by the hon. member for Halton speaking on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The hon. member stated:

--we remember the calamity inflicted on the Armenian people in 1915. This tragedy was committed with the intent to destroy a national group in which hundreds of thousands of Armenians were subjected to atrocities which included massive deportations and massacres.

May the memory of this period contribute to healing wounds as well as to reconciliation of present day nations and communities and remind us all of our collective duty to work together toward world peace--

Both of the above statements demonstrate that we share the memory of the suffering during this painful period. We have not forgotten. It is indelibly etched in our minds. During the debate on the Armenian tragedy in 1996, the House adopted a motion recognizing the week of April 20 to April 27 each year as a week of remembrance of the inhumanity of people toward one another.

The government has shown in previous debates and continues to show today that it attaches a great deal of importance to ensuring that the memory of this human tragedy is never allowed to fade from our collective conscience. It is important that knowledge of this event and of other calamities throughout the 20th century be kept alive and passed on to future generations. Remembering these events should also prompt us to further develop international mechanisms for preventing them from recurring and promoting reconciliation, which is crucial to achieving everlasting peace and a new start for all.

From this perspective, our country is a symbol of hope for humanity. In Canada, people from all over the world suffering from oppression, displacement and damaged dignity have found and continue to find refuge and comfort, an oasis of tolerance, sharing and understanding. These people who have been displaced, including people of Armenian descent, have succeeded here in rebuilding their lives in a safe place where individual freedoms are protected in Canada.

Canada is a land of hope, of renewal and of reconciliation and we are all working very hard, especially in these times, to ensure that Canadian ideals and values, such as tolerance, democracy and supremacy of law, are reflected in the work of international organizations and in the tools developed to prevent any recurrence of the horrors of the past.

We are not alone in defending these ideals, of course, but it is something we do naturally because we live in a tolerant society, a society where the diversity and differences of people from around the world is not only allowed but protected, promoted and, I might say, celebrated.

Our regular participation in peacekeeping missions around the globe is clear testimony to our desire and determination to make a concrete contribution to shaping a world where reconciliation and tolerance can replace hate and intolerance.

It is essential, indeed I would say it is our duty, to work tirelessly to promote multiculturalism throughout those parts of the world where its acceptance is precarious because we can use Canada as a shining example.

Today more than ever we must strive to promote tolerance and reconciliation among peoples so that the horrors of the past, like the tragedy suffered by the Armenian people, are never repeated.

[Gurmant Grewal, Canadian Alliance, Surrey Central, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to participate in the debate on private member's Motion No. 328 which states:

That this House recognize the Armenian genocide of 1915 and condemn this act as a crime against humanity.

I appreciate the sentiments, the emotion, the remembrance and the sense that is at the heart of the motion.

Earlier I had the opportunity to speak on the same issue through a motion moved by the hon. member for Brampton Centre who did a great deal of work on this issue. He even caused the matter to go before the Canadian heritage committee and forced the committee to issue a report.

A delegation from Canada's Armenian community visited me in my House of Commons office. I also received information from the Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations. I highly appreciate the interest expressed by both communities--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I would ask for the unanimous consent of the House to adopt the motion.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

Is there unanimous consent to adopt the motion?