Debates of Oct. 23rd, 2001

Anti-terrorism Legislation

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Bisson's comments were directed specifically at that portion of the bill that relates to the communications security establishment. He quite clearly indicated that his use of the word exorbitant was in the sense of being out of the ordinary and not excessive. In fact, I have a written letter from Mr. Bisson who supports the amendment in Bill C-36 for the communications security establishment.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us be serious here.

A simple review of the act is recognition of the permanent nature of the so-called exorbitant powers, whereas sunset clauses are a recognition of the temporary nature of certain exceptional measures it contains.

My question is for the Minister of Justice. Does she recognize the necessity, in order to reassure the population, for certain clauses in this bill to be temporary in nature, and that sunset clauses are needed for this?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we have made it absolutely plain that we believe a three year review mechanism is the appropriate protection for all Canadians. I have also made it equally plain that reasonable people of good faith could disagree on that point. That is why I will be so interested in hearing the advice and recommendations that come from both the House and Senate committees.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health has paid $1.5 million for pills from Apotex and turned them over to Bayer. Bayer says “they don't anticipate the Apotex products will ever be used”. In other words, Canadians pay the price so the Liberals can save face.

Is the problem with the health minister or is the problem with the Patent Act?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have today what they did not have and could not get a week ago, which is security of access to the drug they need.

We are not paying twice for the same drugs. The Apotex drugs will be kept. Bayer has said it will respond within 48 hours if we place an order for its drug, which we have not yet done. If it cannot respond, the Apotex drugs will used. Last week it could not respond. If that happens again, we have the security of the Apotex drugs.

That is protecting the security of the health of Canadians.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, before these Liberals were elected to govern, they promised to change the Patent Act. The health minister would not be in this mess today if the Liberals had kept their promise. The serious flaws in the Patent Act have been amply illustrated by the Cipro fiasco.

Will the minister now bring in the promised changes to the Patent Act or will he instead persist in perpetuating the Mulroney legacy?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we respect the Patent Act. We have to make sure everything is done in accordance with the Patent Act.

Let me say this. This has less to do with the Patent Act than it does with what happened last week when we went to a company that held a patent and asked for access to its drug. We felt we needed the drug. It said it did not have it. It said that on two occasions.

If Health Canada officials, acting in good faith, took steps on the basis of that information at a time of need to get access to the drug, then although they erred in not following the process, I stand behind them. We will continue to do what is required to protect the health security of Canadians.

International Co-operation

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the campaign manager for the Minister for International Cooperation in last year's election received untendered contracts for slightly under $50,000, just a few hundred dollars short of the threshold for which tenders are required.

Will the minister provide the House with a detailed accounting of Ted Lojko's work and billings to ensure that taxpayers received value for this money?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question. It is very clear that the CIDA contracts always respect and, in this case, fully comply with treasury board rules and regulations.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, that is hardly an accounting. The minister has no excuse for such blatant and backdated patronage. She personally asked that her department, CIDA, award a contract to workers on her election campaign. Senior officials at CIDA said that they were pressured to award the contracts. They said “we were told to make this happen”.

The contracts were questionable. The patronage is obvious. Will the foreign affairs minister provide some explanation on behalf of his cabinet colleague for this atrocious abuse of taxpayer dollars in awarding loyal Liberals?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, these accusations are simply outrageous. The CIDA contract in question fully complied with treasury board rules and regulations, including contract regulations covering retroactive situations.

Terrorism

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in the month following the September 11 attack our solicitor general spent most of his time denying the Canadian connection.

Let us look at the facts. Al-Marabh, the former Toronto resident, has been identified by the FBI as one of four key suspects in the attack on America. The RCMP is searching for another 10 to 12 key suspects in the Toronto area. Three suspects have been arrested in Fort McMurray, one a refugee claimant with up to 15 different aliases.

Will the solicitor general finally end the denial and admit there is a huge Canadian connection?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is too bad my hon. colleague continues to jump to conclusions. I get my information from the commissioner of the RCMP, the director of CSIS and the attorney general of the United States. These people and agencies have indicated that there is no evidence of a direct link between Canada and September 11.

However as I have said many times, we cannot dismiss that possibility. This is an international investigation that involves thousands of leads and a number of arrests, some here in Canada.

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, no one is jumping to conclusions. The evidence is pointing to the conclusions.

There is more on the Canadian connection. France has demanded the extradition of Abdellah Ouzghar, an associate of Ahmed Ressam. Ouzghar has been identified as a ringleader of a passport forging operation.

Canada was deliberately chosen because of the ease in which to pull off such an operation. Does the government admit the terrorists are using Canada as a venue of opportunity because of its lax laws?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

It is a pity, Mr. Speaker, that my hon. colleague continues to wish to criticize our police and immigration. The fact of the matter is, we have one of the safest countries in the world. As I have said a number of times, and it is obvious my hon. colleague has big trouble accepting this, there is no direct link between Canada and the September 11 attacks.

Health

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, an agreement was reached yesterday between Bayer and the Department of Health to ensure the supply of drugs to treat anthrax. Yet, we have learned that the minister also plans on respecting the contract with Apotex and will pay this company the sum of $1.3 million.

After making taxpayers foot the bill for his mistakes in the Airbus saga, does the minister realize that, once again, taxpayers will end up paying for his mistakes, and that this is unacceptable?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have now what we always wanted, a safe and secure supply of the drugs needed.

One week ago, Bayer stated clearly to Health Canada officials that it could not provide the drugs. We now have them because we reached an agreement, and Bayer is committed to providing the drugs when they are needed. This is a good result for the health of Canadians.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister now says that he is not responsible for the decisions that were taken. He is hiding shamelessly behind his officials and citing public health reasons to justify his haste.

Since Bayer confirms that it could have met the demand, will the minister continue to assert that his quick response was for public health reasons?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, officials from my department acted immediately after having heard from Bayer that it could not provide the drugs needed. It is clear that the officials made a mistake, but it was made in good faith and to protect the health of Canadians.

I support my officials. I share their commitment to the health of Canadians. We will continue to protect that health aggressively.

Anti-Terrorism Legislation

[Vic Toews, Canadian Alliance, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the anti-terrorism legislation provides for the unrestricted right of the Minister of Justice to hide information held by the government about a Canadian citizen, simply by a stroke of a pen, by issuing a certificate.

Why will the minister not amend the legislation to permit the privacy commissioner to review her decisions in confidence so that Canadians can be assured that the minister is acting in the interests of national security and not partisan Liberal politics?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I have already explained on a number of occasions in the House that the power provided to me to issue a certificate is one that would be used in limited circumstances and in relation to highly confidential information related to international relations or national security.

I am aware that Mr. Radwanski, the privacy commissioner, was at committee this morning and in fact has suggested an amendment. My officials have not had the time to review it, but I will say that I think the approach of the privacy commissioner speaks to how responsibly witnesses are taking this important task before committee and I thank Mr. Radwanski for directing his--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Provencher.

[Vic Toews, Canadian Alliance, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the APEC inquiry pointed out the secret abuse by the Prime Minister's Office in interfering with police operations. The privacy commissioner today expressed his concern over the absolute power granted to the minister.

In view of the abuses by the Prime Minister's Office at APEC, I am thankful that the minister will look at the issue of the certificate. Will she also look at correcting the abuses in respect of APEC and ensure that the Prime Minister's Office no longer interferes with police operations?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I completely reject the premise of the hon. member's question. I think what he has asserted is most unfortunate and in fact verges on the outrageous.

Let me reiterate for the hon. member that the power given to the attorney general to issue a certificate is a very limited one and for very limited purposes. However, as with other provisions of this legislation, I will be very interested in the advice and recommendations of the committee. In fact if there are ways that we can improve the legislation to achieve our objectives, we are open to considering them.

Health

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister said on Friday that the opposition puts the health of Canadians behind the interests of certain companies.

It is in fact exactly the opposite and the Minister of Health got caught in the act.

Will he acknowledge that it was he who put the interests of a pharmaceutical company ahead of the interests of the public and of the health of the public?