Mr. Speaker, I listened earlier with considerable interest to the speech of the government House leader. Like an orchestra conductor, he conducted all the leaders of all the parties. He was proud, clearly, of this unanimous report.
I should acknowledge the objectives I consider worthy in this report. What we want most of all is the modernization of the expression of democracy. A society necessarily changes, as do the people representing it. People change. We do not do things today the way we did 5, 10 or 30 years ago. We might even say we will never again do things the way we did before the unfortunate events of September 11. This is a clear illustration that society changes and that democracy must change.
I recognize the efforts of the government House leader and his role in the achievement of objectives that are solid and creditable. I also acknowledge the concern to incorporate changes in the rules of procedure that govern us as representatives democratically elected by the people. I recognize the merits of a consensual process.
As I understand it, the government House leader has agreed with the House leaders of all parties that changes to the Standing Orders would require not a majority but unanimous agreement, a consensus. I think this is to his very great credit and I congratulate him on achieving consensus on certain matters.
But this orchestra leader, the government House leader, who was conducting a symphony--in which we were able to pick out the House leaders of all parties--was unfortunately conducting Schubert's Unfinished Symphony . The government House leader would have to agree that his symphony is unfinished. Why? Because there are a few things missing from the report. If we question all 301 members of the House, excluding the Speaker, it will become apparent that there is consensus on what those things are.
I do not wish to hold up adoption of this report, because the member for Roberval, the Bloc Quebecois House leader, has very clearly set out my party's position. I would not want members to interpret my remarks as being inconsistent with those of my party leader. But it must be admitted that there are a few things missing. Certain undertakings given did not make it into this report.
As an example, I would like to mention the Speech from the Throne. The governor general, or the Prime Minister speaking through her, told us:
In this new session of Parliament, the Government will make further proposals to improve procedures in the House and Senate.
There is a reference to “further”, to certain small improvements. We could say that the government delivered only partially on this commitment made in the speech. The throne speech goes on to say:
Among other measures, voting procedures will be modernized in the House of Commons.
Why am I saying that the symphony that the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons was boasting about is an unfinished symphony? Because, among other things, the report is silent on the recorded division process that has been used in this House since 1867, since the first parliament. This archaic system, which consists in getting up to vote when a clerk calls our name, is totally obsolete in 2001.
The Prime Minister uses every possible opportunity, even when visiting dignitaries are next to him during a press conference, to boast about Canada being “the very best country in the world”, or something to that effect. He says that in front of heads of state. I can just imagine what these people think. It does make a visiting head of state feel very good to hear that he is in the very best country in the world. Does this mean that his own country is lagging way behind? So much for diplomacy.
Why do we still have this archaic roll call vote in Canada, which claims to be a modern democracy? Why can we not record our vote like they do in the United States, where they use a card about the size of a credit or health card to record their vote at a station? Some of my colleagues and myself have friends in the United States. We could go to specific stations and insert our card to record our vote.
I would like to clarify something. We discussed it within our caucus and we do not agree with the idea of voting from our riding offices, our cars, or by using our cellular phones. This is not the idea.
I am reminded that we are not allowed to use props in this House. I apologize for what I did earlier.
So, we could have stations where members of parliament would insert their card for identification purposes and where they could say yes or no, as is done in modern democracies, such as the United States.
While acting as a representative for my party at the Association des parlementaires de la Francophonie, we took part in a conference on developing democratic rules and we had the opportunity to see how they are being dealt with on a day-to-day basis in new, emerging democracies. I remember visiting Sofia, Bulgaria, in 1997. It is known as a new democracy. When Bulgaria cut the umbilical cord from the Eastern Bloc countries, it became a new democracy. I believe it was January 1, 1991, if my memory serves me well. So, we visited Bulgaria's National Assembly in Sofia. They have an electronic voting system. I think there is a significant difference in the average annual revenues of Canada and Bulgaria. It is an emerging democracy. The country had to put in place new institutions. However, when Bulgarians set up a democratically elected parliament in 1991, one of the mechanisms they chose was an electronic voting system.
There are numerous countries in Africa that I have not had the opportunity to visit. We spoke with colleagues from all of the parties while on parliamentary missions and in meetings of various international fora, such as the Commonwealth and the Francophonie. Some emerging democracies in Africa have electronic voting systems in both their parliament and their national assembly.
So, this is the first reason why I am describing this symphony as an unfinished symphony. The report is incomplete. The second reason, and I will speak fairly quickly on this point, is nonetheless quite important.
During certain discussions in the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, the Bloc Quebecois suggested a different approach to parliamentary proceedings, particularly on Fridays.
Mr. Speaker, you have sat here as a member. You have been a member since 1988. You yourself have seen the parody of democracy that takes place here on Fridays. It is a joke.
The opposition parties do a responsible job, starting very early in the morning--the Bloc Quebecois starts at 7.30 a.m.--so that we can prepare a decent question period, with questions which are coherent and which address the problems concerning Quebecers, and often even the problems concerning Canadians as well.
We make an effort and we do a good job of getting questions ready. However during oral question period on Fridays, from 11 a.m. to 12 p.m., and this is also true for 10 a.m. to 11 a.m. during the business of the House, and from 12 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. until the House adjourns, we find ourselves looking at a House that is literally empty.
I am not suggesting that members are all on the golf course or away at their cottage. That is not what I am trying to say. I am trying to say that members are often either on the road, headed for their riding or, on Fridays, actually in their riding offices.
It is too bad that is not mentioned in this report, but the Bloc Quebecois suggested that the whole issue of Fridays be given a second look. The government could say that it is easy for us, that all we do is criticize. Our answer to that is that yesterday, three Bloc Quebecois members outlined specific measures for helping the economy to recover in the wake of the events of September 11. These were specific, doable measures. That is something concrete.
We in the Bloc Quebecois are not content to criticize for the sake of criticizing. We have constructive suggestions. One suggestion for improving parliamentary proceedings on Fridays was to look at what is done in the Quebec national assembly.
Is it because the idea comes from Quebec that it is not worthy trying or modifying? I trust that is not the case. There is a system in operation for Fridays in the Quebec national assembly. The three parties in the assembly can be asked for references on it: the Parti Quebecois, the Liberals, and even the Action démocratique. Friday is question day. A minister is in attendance and is subjected to a barrage of questions by MNAs of all parties to answer for his actions.
This system merits serious examination but unfortunately the report does not mention it. One of the suggestions might have been--a suggestion I repeat here--to see what is being done in the Quebec national assembly when it comes to questions.
Our productivity would be increased if we did so, instead of debating to empty seats on Fridays, asking questions of parliamentary secretaries who do not have the slightest clue about the issues we raise and look as if they had just landed from another galaxy when asked questions, as if we were saying to them “Earth calling. Welcome to our planet”. That is how efficient Friday oral question periods are.
To those who are listening at present, I suggest they put this to the test tomorrow between 11 a.m. and 12 p.m. They will see the quality of the answers given, and who is giving them”. Regularly, out of the entire cabinet of 24 or 25 ministers, there are 16, 18 or 19 missing.
Can we do an efficient job as parliamentarians? Quebec's system for questions should be given serious consideration.
As my second last point, I would simply like to state that I subscribe to the comments by the House leader of the Canadian Alliance to the effect that this opportunity--changing the standing orders--ought to have been taken advantage of to seriously examine the entire matter of electing the chairs and deputy chairs of each committee.
One can tell that the orders, the directions, are coming from the top. I have witnessed this in the standing committee on transportation, where the candidate was imposed by the PMO, or by the office of the whip, who gets all the dirty work to do. We had imposed upon us an MP who was totally incompetent, ignorant, and undemocratic in his management. The decision had, however, been made that this would be the MP who would chair the committee, while the committee membership included fine candidates and, by consensus, the opposition parties and government could have agreed on one to fill the job.
A serious look needs to be taken at the Canadian Alliance proposal concerning the appointment of committee chairs and vice-chairs.
In closing, this report is the work of the parliamentary leaders only. If our Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs is a real, efficient and meaningful committee, I trust that we, its members, will be able to address certain matters and submit reports for system improvements, which will also be adopted by the government.
I have referred to certain matters that were not addressed, but if I had more time there are a whole lot I would like to suggest.
Our expectation is for the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, of which I am a member, to do a proper job, instead of the government leader, in consultation with his fellow leaders, proposing amendments or changes.
I believe that something needed to be done, that certain matters needed to be looked at seriously, but that does not prevent the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs from being allowed to do its job effectively for the rest of this session.