Debates of Nov. 19th, 2001

Anti-Terrorism Legislation

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a question of trust.

I want to ask the Minister of Justice: why should the government be trusted with new powers in which it may use these powers and not be able to distinguish between real terrorists and non-terrorists if at the moment it cannot distinguish between peaceful protesters and violent protesters?

Is she not concerned about the reputation the government has developed? Why should we trust her or anyone else on that side with increased powers when they cannot use the powers they already have judiciously?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is fair to say that most reasonable people would say that the police appointed themselves and conducted themselves admirably on the weekend.

The hon. member and I have engaged in this discussion before. I believe the definition of terrorist activity in Bill C-36 is clear. However I have also indicated that I am open to considering further clarifications to the definition that will deal with the concerns of the hon. member and others.

Foreign Affairs

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, under Bill C-35 the Minister of Foreign Affairs is expanding immunity beyond traditional diplomats to a whole new additional category of foreigners.

Although the minister has agreed that he will report on a quarterly basis those who claim immunity under this new bill, there is no requirement in legislation at all for subsequent ministers.

Will the minister amend Bill C-35 to require an annual report to the House stating who claimed immunity under this new expanded criteria?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think the committee has already dealt with any proposed amendments to the bill. The availability of information on claims for immunity is available to any citizen through the Access to Information Act. We have introduced a procedure to ensure that all such current claims are reported on a quarterly basis, fully documented and fully explained, and this is a new innovation.

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is probably a hard concept for a minister of the government to understand but perhaps someday the Liberals will not be over there. Perhaps another party will be over there and it will have no obligation to follow this rule.

It is ironic that at a time when Canadians are being asked to surrender certain rights under Bill C-36, the anti-terrorism bill, Bill C-35 is expanding immunity to foreigners.

Will the minister put into legislation a requirement to report to the House on who claims civil immunity and criminal immunity under this new legislation?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we have debated this at some length in the committee. What is somewhat worrisome about the question that the hon. member poses is that he rather implies that many members of the diplomatic corps are involved in criminal activity and are claiming somehow to have immunity.

The fact is that a very small proportion of those who are here representing their countries ever make a claim of diplomatic immunity and these obligations are ones we have taken on under the Vienna convention.

Terrorism

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has accused the opposition of slinging mud in the same breath as he has accused parliamentarians of being bigots for asking why he has not stopped a terrorist front organization from operating in Canada.

His own Department of Justice, at court, said that the Federation of Associations of Canadian Tamils is an example of “political and benevolent front organizations which support the LTTE”.

Instead of slinging mud, why does the Prime Minister not stand up and say that he will protect the Sri Lankan community, both in Canada and abroad, from an organization that it has identified as a terrorist front?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly the type of thing we are doing. What they are trying to do is to associate a group of Canadian citizens who were celebrating their identity with representatives of municipal, provincial and federal governments and representatives of many other bodies in attendance. Many members of parliament and two ministers were also there in good faith.

Trying to link the terrorists to those who live in Canada peacefully is a trick that I will not accept. I will tell them that when they link the two together--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, shame on the Prime Minister for putting his own political interests ahead of the security interests of Canadians and Sri Lankans.

This weekend I met with six members of the Sri Lankan community in my constituency who could not understand why the government supports an organization which its own departments of justice and immigration have identified as a terrorist front.

When will the Prime Minister put the rule of law ahead of the political interests of protecting his finance minister from a mistake that he made? Why does he not just apologize?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

In Canada, Mr. Speaker, there is a due process of law. They are making accusations at this moment. If they have something proving that there is a link between the Canadian citizens who were in Toronto in good faith and terrorists they have the burden of proof, not us.

Airline Industry

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Transport has stated repeatedly that his responsibility is to guarantee a competitive airline industry.

Will the Minister of Transport also recognize that one of his duties is to ensure that jobs related to the airline industry are saved, and consequently, does he plan on providing a loan guarantee to a possible buyer with a plan to save all or part of Canada 3000?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the bankruptcy of Canada 3000 is unfortunate, especially for workers, but also for Canadians who are losing their air service.

Prior to September 11, we had an airline policy that worked well, but the tragic events affected the airline industry throughout the world, not only here in Canada. I think we must do some thinking and consider making improvements to our policy.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in order to maintain competition, there must be guaranteed air service to the regions.

Will the minister recognize that the time has come to help a possible buyer of all or part of Canada 3000, and to take advantage of the ensuing discussions to guarantee people living in the regions a regional airline worthy of the name regional?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I might remind the hon. member that Bill C-26 and the former parliament did extract conditions from Air Canada to serve small communities across the country that Canadian Airlines served and Air Canada served at the time for a period of three years. This government and parliament supported the notion that these communities had to be protected. This provided a transition period for other companies to provide the service.

Certainly the competition was developing very well before September 11 but the tragic events have had an incredible effect, not only in Canada but around the world. We now have to assess the situation and determine what policy changes are required to ensure further competition.

Tax Point Transfer

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, all political parties in Quebec are in agreement about asking the federal government to transfer tax points so that provinces can fully fund programs in their jurisdictions.

Will the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance listen, for once, to the wishes of their own province and seriously consider the issue of tax point transfer?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, when we look at the whole evolution of tax points, it is very clear that, for example, a tax point in Ontario or in Alberta is worth a lot more per capita than a tax point in Quebec or in Nova Scotia.

So, if we agreed to transfer tax points, we would be penalizing Quebec and the other beneficiary provinces in favour of the richest provinces. We are not prepared to do that.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Quebec is not the only province that wants a debate on the transfer of tax points. Several other provinces also support this idea since the Liberal government unilaterally made deep cuts to social transfers.

Why is the Liberal government incapable of exercising true, flexible and co-operative federalism by initiating a nationwide debate on the transfer of tax points?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I just gave an answer on tax points. When we talk about transfers, all I can say is that equalization is the ultimate transfer: it is a transfer from the Canadian government to the provinces.

Transfers for health and education are ultimate transfers. They are transfers from the Canadian government to the provinces and the Canadian Alliance voted against them.

Canada Post

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, last June, Canada Post closed a postal terminal in north Sydney. My constituents became very concerned about the loss of their jobs to the community.

When I asked the Minister of Public Works and Government Services what he would do to ensure vital jobs were not removed from Cape Breton, he told the House that Canada Post would find a new vocation for the north Sydney postal terminal. I thank him very much for that.

Could the minister report back to the House on any developments in north Sydney?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to inform the House that a postal service office will be established in north Sydney in the new year. This decision will create 10 new permanent jobs. I want to congratulate the hon. member for Sydney--Victoria for his hard work.

Airline Industry

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians will be stunned to realize that a minute ago the transport minister soberly said that competition has been developing very well in the airline industry in this country.

With the death of Canada 3000, air competition has died in Toronto, Montreal, St. John's and Halifax. Since this government came into power, CanJet, Canada 3000, Canadian Airlines, Greyhound, Roots, Royal and VistaJet have all declared bankruptcy or have been taken over by other countries.

Under the transport minister's watch, air competition is dying, not thriving. What is he going to do about it?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as I said a moment ago in French, the loss of Canada 3000 is indeed regrettable especially for the employees and those Canadians who have lost the choice of an airline carrier. However, I might remind hon. members that competition does exist. It flourishes in many parts of the country, including western Canada where the hon. member is from.

There are certain communities particularly on the east coast that I am concerned about. I am heartened by the fact that WestJet has decided, and has said publicly, that it is going to bring in service to some of those communities. I would hope that Air Transat may look at some of those markets as well.

[James Moore, Canadian Alliance, Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, competition does not exist for the minister's constituents or two-thirds of Canadians in central and eastern Canada.

Since Canada 3000 has gone bankrupt a Globe and Mail Ipsos-Reid survey has shown that two-thirds of passengers are afraid that an airline they use will go bankrupt and leave them stranded. Another poll has shown that 78% of Canadians support the use of air marshals on planes. South of the border since September 11 both houses of congress have passed the aviation security act.

How much longer does the alarm bell have to ring until the transport minister wakes up and tables meaningful legislation to regain confidence in the air industry in this country to get people flying again?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as I said before, the priority of the government has been to ensure that new regulations are put in place and they are enforced to enhance security.

The hon. member seems fixated upon the legislative process in the United States which operates in a different fashion. I might remind him that that bill has been before congress for the last two months.

In this country we have had numerous debates in the House. We have had committee hearings. The hon. member has been quite vocal at those hearings. Cabinet is now seized with this issue. I expect changes to be introduced soon.