Debates of Nov. 5th, 2001

Veterans Week

[Roy H. Bailey, Canadian Alliance, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, today marks the beginning of national Veterans Week in Canada. It is ironic that on November 5, 1911, an aircraft was first used for the dropping of bombs.

Several years ago the Royal Canadian Legion had a theme leading up to November 11. That theme was “If you can't remember, think”. Today because of what happened on September 11 Canadians have had the time to think, and indeed we have to remember what has happened in the past.

Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae warned us “If ye break faith with us who die, we shall not sleep”. Today we know that on many occasions we have broken that faith. This week Canadians must vow never to break that faith again.

We must endeavour to make sure that our curriculum in our schools honours in a profound way what that debt is so that we can enjoy liberty and freedom today.

National Security

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, last week one of the Prime Minister's parliamentary secretaries admitted that the job loss, especially as related to the softwood lumber industry, is connected to the lack of commitment that Canada is making to a secure perimeter around the continent.

The Prime Minister cannot keep flipping back and forward on this. How many more jobs in Canada have to be lost before the Prime Minister will commit to a continental security perimeter with the United States?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary never said such a thing. We are working with the Americans to make sure we have good protection on the continent.

We passed a bill on immigration that became law a few days ago. We are working on the security law under the name of the Minister of Justice. It is in front of the Senate, and the Senate and House of Commons have already reported.

We are making sure we have security around the border of Canada. The Americans are doing the same thing about the border--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the government cannot turn around today and say that its lack of progress on issues such as softwood lumber is not linked to its failure to establish a North American security perimeter.

The Prime Minister claims that he raised these issues with President Bush two weeks ago. Why, if he has raised the issue of softwood lumber with the Americans, are they not listening to him?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have been discussing this issue with the Americans for a very long time. We had an agreement that worked for five years. The provinces and the industry want an agreement.

We would prefer a total free trade agreement, because, as I said to the president, “If you want Canada's natural gas, and Canada's oil, why don't you also want Canada's wood, if we have free trade?”

We are working toward an agreement and we hope to have free trade for softwood lumber just like—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, we have to get specific here. He talks about chats with the west wing. The last time the Prime Minister called the west wing was he specific and did he tell the president that in British Columbia, on the softwood lumber dispute, 12,000 people are out of work and that entire communities are closing down? We warned this government about this for three years. Did he ask the west wing if a more firm commitment to a border security perimeter would help people losing jobs in the softwood lumber industry and other areas? Did he ask him that?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, everybody knows that the softwood lumber problem existed long before September 11. Everybody knows we mention that to our American friends all the time. I am in communication every two or three weeks with the president. I spent some time with him in China.

The Leader of the Opposition pretends that if he were prime minister he would direct the president of the United States. That is why he will never be prime minister.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last week they insulted the people of B.C. and now we get nothing but insults from the Prime Minister again.

The Canadian Alliance has proposed and is supporting a security perimeter with the U.S. Many Canadians agree with that position. Will the Prime Minister stop fooling around with our border and get down to serious and fundamental change for the safety and security of all Canadians and for the U.S.?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is exactly what we are doing. We are talking with the Americans all the time. However the one thing we will do is pass a law for Canada and the United States will pass a law for the United States.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is a choice opportunity to do that and it is right now, and not wait for the U.S.

There is another thing going on. Liberals have been musing about an economic union with the U.S. In fact, the Liberal member of the finance committee has mused publicly about that. Does the Prime Minister agree with that individual Liberal member that we should have an economic union with the U.S.? Yes or no.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, for the other side to ask if the leader agrees with every member of his caucus is very funny. Listening to the Leader of the Opposition led to the coalition in the corner.

We have debates in our party. People can express their views in our party. However, when a policy is adopted, it is the policy of the Liberal Party, not a policy of a strange coalition.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as the World Trade Organization prepares to hear the complaint lodged following the imposition of countervailing duties, Canada is continuing its discussions with the United States on softwood lumber. The special envoy of the American president will be in Ottawa tomorrow.

If the aim of the government remains a return to total free trade, does the Prime Minister intend to ask himself the special American envoy to pass on the following message to President Bush: “Respect the spirit of the agreement and suspend all of the duties on softwood lumber until the WTO has made its ruling”?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that is what we have been asking for months.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I put the question because earlier the Prime Minister nerely spoke of an agreement with the United States, which is different from a return to total free trade. American allegations have always been rejected.

Will the Prime Minister make sure the WTO looks not only at countervailing duties, but at the anti-dumping duties unfairly imposed by the Americans, another application before the WTO?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Hon. Pierre Pettigrew (Minister of International Trade, Lib.)Mr. Speaker, we have already asked the World Trade Organization to look into six elements of the American strategy and we know full well it will decide in favour of Canada, because we have always been right on this.

Our objective is essentially to continue with the litigation and carry on discussions with the Americans at the same time, in order to come up with a solid and long term solution.

I will have an opportunity tomorrow to talk with Mr. Racicot, who was appointed by the president of the United States, and I can assure members of one thing: he will understand exactly where we stand on this issue.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, following the Americans' decision to impose anti-dumping duties of 12.6% on Canadian and Quebec lumber, the Minister for International Trade said last week that he was prepared to meet stakeholders at the appropriate time.

My question is very simple: Can the Minister for International Trade tell us exactly what he means by “appropriate time”?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, it so happens that I spent the weekend discussing this with representatives from the lumber industry in all the provinces. I spoke to about ten of them. I had close consultations with them personally and also through my team, my department.

At this point, there is no great desire to have discussions with companies now, because they feel that the lines of communications are wide open andthat the dialogue is very successful.

Talks with the United States will resume on November 12, on solid ground. Tomorrow, Mr. Racicot will pay us a visit and then we will decide on how to go about this issue.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, industry representatives have said for some time that they want a summit meeting to which all stakeholders would be invited.

Will the minister listen to these people and immediately call such a meeting?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know to whom Bloc Quebecois members speak, but I can assure the House that, at this point, the lines of communications are wide open and such a meeting would seem premature to the vast majority of industry representatives, with the possible exception of two or three.

At this point, the majority is convinced that it is better to carry on in the direction that we have chosen with these talks on substantive issues.

I really appreciate the attitude of the Quebec and British Columbia governments, which have come to the table to talk seriously.

Foreign Affairs

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Lloyd Axworthy has confirmed firsthand the desperate humanitarian crisis unfolding in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

In supporting the call for a halt in the bombing, the foreign affairs minister stated “I hope the U.S. will start listening to some reason.”

Will the Prime Minister listen to reason?

Humanitarian aid must be allowed to reach the millions who face starvation. Will the Prime Minister now support the call for a halt in the bombing?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the position of the government is that it is a member of the coalition and it is supporting the coalition. It is not the time at this crucial moment to have a divided coalition. Having a solid coalition is very important.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, let me quote what the current foreign affairs minister had to say earlier today. He said that we had to worry about the hearts and minds of the people of Afghanistan. Surely bombing the hell out of them and starving them to death is guaranteed not to win their hearts and minds. I implore the Prime Minister to understand that.

For both humanitarian and practical reasons, the bombing must be halted. If people's bodies are broken so will their hearts and minds be broken. Will the Prime Minister not understand that?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is a very easy way to stop the bombing and that is for the Taliban to return bin Laden to face justice in the United States. That would stop the bombing right away.