House of Commons Hansard #127 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was impaired.

Topics

Competition ActGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Bonavista—Trinity—Conception Newfoundland & Labrador

Liberal

Brian Tobin LiberalMinister of Industry

Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to take the opportunity to participate in report stage consideration of Bill C-23. As colleagues have said, this is a bill that is a result of a great deal of very good work by members of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology. No doubt the bill has been very much improved as a result of the collaborative approach that members have taken and their commitment to working together to make this a much better bill.

The main elements of the bill comprise the prohibition of deceptive prize notices, enhanced mutual international assistance in civil competition matters, streamlining improvements to the Competition Tribunal process, broadening the scope under which the tribunal may issue an interim order, a limited right of access to the tribunal and specific measures to protect competition in the Canadian airline industry.

On the issue of private access there has been a great deal of debate. There have been a great many witnesses and those who spoke who were diametrically opposed to each other with respect to the right of private access. I will come back to that issue in just a moment and refer specifically to the amendment being proposed by the hon. member who spoke just a few moments ago on behalf of the Bloc Quebecois.

First , I want to talk about deceptive practices. The amendment to prohibit deceptive prize notices addresses unscrupulous promoters who mislead their victims into believing they have won a prize without disclosing the excessive costs associated with collecting the prize. The commissioner has testified that this is a growing problem in Canada and the bureau, quite literally, receives thousands of complaints each year.

We have all heard of Canadian seniors receiving scratch and win cards in the mail. People scratch the card and discover they have supposedly won a prize. They then follow instructions and place a telephone call in order to claim their prize. However, they are not forewarned and they cannot know or be aware that the cost of placing the call is generally greater than the value of the so-called prize.

In short, senior citizens across the country are being targeted by corrupt and unscrupulous individuals seeking to quite literally take advantage and to steal their saved, hard-earned monies.

The approach proposed in Bill C-23 sets out a balance between capturing improper conduct and the legitimate practices of the majority of the business community. No doubt there are legitimate prize contests that do in fact treat citizens appropriately.

With respect to foreign evidence gathering, Bill C-23 proposes amendments that will facilitate the gathering of evidence from foreign jurisdictions with respect to civil competition matters. This is similar to what already exists for criminal matters under the mutual legal assistance treaty to which Canada and several dozen other countries are signatories. I believe these amendments will help us do a better job in a wide variety of areas but notably with respect to these corrupt so-called competitions or prize scams.

On a more technical side, the bill proposes to streamline the tribunal process and broaden the powers available to the tribunal. First, the amendments will permit the commissioner and the person who is the subject of an inquiry to refer to the tribunal any question of law in relation to the application or interpretation of the act. This is also available to private parties that agree to refer a question to the tribunal related to part VII.1 through to part IX of the act.

Also, the tribunal will be able to assess costs. The initial position of the government was limited to the assessment of cost by the tribunal in the case of frivolous or vexatious litigation intended to hinder or delay procedures before the tribunal.

Many witnesses before the committee urged the adoption of the ordinary cost rules of commercial litigation in order to have a proper deterrence against strategic litigation. Therefore the government tabled a motion to reflect this concern. Other changes permit the tribunal through summary disposition to rapidly deal with unsubstantiated matters.

The last amendment proposed with respect to tribunal improvements addresses interim orders. We have heard that certain anti-competitive practices cause irreparable harm to the Canadian economy.

Up until now the commissioner could not apply to the tribunal during an inquiry to obtain a cease and desist order to stop anti-competitive conduct. First he had to obtain sufficient evidence to make a case before the tribunal. The problem is that these inquiries are time consuming and they are resource intensive.

The amendments proposed will now allow the tribunal, when certain conditions are met, to render an interim cease and desist order. The order will be issued for an 80 day period with the possibility of extension where the commissioner has not received the information necessary to complete his inquiry and to determine whether an application should be made before the tribunal.

I want to address the matter of private access. Under the current system, the commissioner is the only person who can submit an application before the tribunal. This monopoly has been the subject of several studies over the past three decades. Many proposals have been made to permit the right of private access to the tribunal without involving the commissioner. One of these proposals was contained in a private member's bill tabled here by our colleague, the member for Pickering--Ajax--Uxbridge, and was part of the public policy consultation.

A great deal has been said about private access, during the consultations and again during the committee hearings. There were strong views expressed and, I think it is fair to say, a division, primarily between those who belong to the small and medium sized business community and those who belong to Canada's largest corporations, those that are members of the chamber of commerce. On the one hand, there is a concern for a right to private access, and on the other, the concern that Canada not become a litigious society where strategic litigation occurs primarily for reasons of corporate warfare rather than genuine need or concern. The committee worked very hard to try to resolve both, on the one hand the request for private access, and on the other the concern about not creating an overly litigious corporate environment in Canada.

The amendments that we now see and the manner in which private access is described is very much the result of the good work of the committee and very much the result of the compromise which has been reached between the parties that had diametrically opposing views on the matter as they testified before committee. It is for that reason, because we now have, I think, a measure of harmony and a measure of agreement after a great deal of hard work, good work, by members on all sides of the House,. that I would submit that further amendments or further changes at this stage of the game may very well undo, although that would not be the intention, the consensus and the compromise that has now been reached.

There is one other matter I want to speak to during the time that is available to me and that is that the last set of amendments added to Bill C-23 are specific to the airline industry. This industry was severely affected by the tragic events of September 11. Canadian airline passenger volumes have dropped. Airlines have lost passengers to alternative tourist transportation methods. In the midst of this turbulent period, airlines in Canada and abroad are trying to continue normal operations while adjusting to the impact of the events of September 11.

All the airlines have been affected. At the time of the collapse of Canada 3000, the commissioner had sufficient evidence to issue a temporary cease and desist order against Air Canada for abusing its dominant position to the detriment of Canada 3000. Air Canada's competitors, starting with WestJet, identified shortcomings in the Competition Act that could and, they submitted, should be remedied.

The events, as we all know, attracted much media coverage and commentary across the country, especially after the news that additional amendments would be added to Bill C-23 to address the airline industry specifically. We need to remember that since the coming into force of Bill C-26 in 2000, the Competition Act has included a specific regime for domestic air transport. The amendments tabled today will close a potential gap that was created by Bill C-26 and will encourage compliance with the abuse of dominance provisions of this act.

The commissioner has indicated that based on his experience in the use of the temporary cease and desist power he obtained in Bill C-26 it was possible that the order would expire before an application could be made before the tribunal. The commissioner has an 80 day window in which to determine whether to make an application before the tribunal with respect to an abuse of dominant position by a dominant air carrier, but that determination is dependent upon having the necessary information in his hands.

The perverse effect of the rules as they currently work is that if information is not forthcoming and if in fact an investigation is not completed, the dominant carrier to whom an order is made can return to the abusive conduct the day after the commissioner's order expires. Hence, we have amendments designed to extend the cease and desist period, amendments designed to give real teeth to the powers available to the commissioner, amendments which are timely in the context of returning Canada's airline industry to a stable operation.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

Bloc

Yvan Loubier Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-23 at report and second reading stage.

First of all, I would like to say that we support this bill. Amending the Competition Act, certain provisions of which go back to the last century, is a step in the right direction.

However, we find it somewhat unfortunate that every time there is an opportunity to improve a situation, to improve a bill, to give it more teeth, and there are often arguments in favour of a complete overhaul, the government prefers a strategy of baby steps.

As I mentioned, this bill is a step in the right direction. But it is the same as the reform of the criminal code, where the government had to take two runs at it before it finally came around to what the Bloc Quebecois had been arguing for a long time.

So it is with the Competition Act. It is entirely to the minister's credit that he accepted these amendments to the Competition Act, which is toothless in Canada, if we compare it to the U.S. legislation. But the government could have gone much further.

As for what is good about this bill, one good idea is encouraging private access since, in the previous legislation, competitors were not allowed to take a case directly to the competition tribunal on their own behalf. I think that this is one notable improvement. It also improves the effectiveness and handling of complaints.

This is limited to four areas. However, they are major ones, if compared to all the complaints referred to the competition tribunal in recent years, including complaints regarding the refusal of suppliers to sell in an anticompetitive context, exclusive dealing, tied selling, and market restriction.

Tied selling is a very important matter. There was a loophole in the legislation with respect to the definition of tied selling, as well as the precise situations in which tied selling could be said to exist, and the measures which were proposed to reduce the risk of the practice.

I will give an example of just how important tied selling is. You are clients of a financial institution. You go to this institution for a loan and you are forced, or strongly encouraged, as a precondition to obtaining the loan, to buy insurance or other financial products offered by the same financial institution.

This kind of tied sales strategy by financial institutions or others is illegal. In that regard, we now have an additional tool to at least reduce the possibility of tied sales, without eliminating it completely, of course, since that is practically impossible.

The fact that interim orders can be issued in cases where a business is suspected of anti-competitive practices is a good idea. Monetary penalties also give more teeth to the legislation, particularly with regard to air carriers.

As I was saying, this is not enough. A few moments ago, the minister promised to continue reviewing the act and to look at further amendments. I would like to mention to him that the first improvement that should be made concerns section 45 of the act. This section, which dates back to the end of the 19th century, allows some form of collusion between multinationals to fix prices or to carry out other anti-competitive activities, such as predatory practices or market segmentation. These practices are totally shameful when one considers what has happened over the years in the oil industry.

Then there are price fixing practices. Our legislation does not have enough teeth to prevent that. We may have our doubts about certain price fixing practices, but we do not yet have the necessary tools to lodge formal complaints in that regard. We saw that in the oil industry in particular.

There is another element missing, namely the merger review process.

Two years ago, there was a major debate on mergers, particularly bank mergers. The debate was very productive, because it gave us a better understanding of what was going on in the industry and what its future might be in light of globalization and the opening up of markets.

On that point, we discovered some flaws in the legislation dealing with competition and we also discovered that parliament lacks the authority to review these merger issues, other than through the Minister of Finance's office, which has the final say on any merger plan and on the analysis resulting from its refusal or approval.

Moreover, when mergers are approved, we do not have the required criteria, analysis mechanisms or legislative tools to deal with any unfair practice that might occur once the mergers are completed.

The minister should examine the issue more thoroughly and maybe, in a way, copy the U.S. legislation, which offers several more remedies than the Canadian legislation.

Finally, as the minister mentioned earlier, the Liberal member for Pickering--Ajax--Uxbridge put forward amendments pertaining to normal trade conditions.

In the legislation, with regard to suppliers, for example, who are in a monopolistic situation where businesses have to buy their input from them, or in an oligopolistic market where three or four suppliers control most of the market, a provision allowing recourse to the Competition Tribunal, which requires, however, that complaints be made in a context of normal business conditions, is not good enough for this kind of market.

I will give an example. In the oil industry, the major oil companies control 85% of the wholesale market for oil products. Then what are the normal conditions in their case? Can they rely on the fact that there are abnormal market conditions, which prevent them from supplying independent retailers, small retailers for example, with crude oil or more refined oil? They can argue that conditions are abnormal, but they forget that they are the ones setting the conditions, determining the market conditions.

So, we would have liked the minister, right from the start, to accept the amendment, which came initially from one of his colleagues and which was picked up by the Bloc, because we are non partisan when the time comes to stand up for the interests of consumers and the industry.

We accept the notion that a Liberal can have a good idea. It happens from time to time. But we would have liked the Minister of Industry to accept this amendment of ours right away. There is still time to do so.

The minister could accept this amendment, which would better protect independent retailers, particularly in the oil industry. It is not really any big deal, just a small additional amendment for the government—the minister is able to do it—to remove the issue of normal conditions, and that is all.

But you can rest assured, Madam Speaker, and I would ask you to speak for us to the minister, that we will make a positive contribution to improving the legislation, because it has needed to be updated for years. It needs to be given some muscle, more teeth, in order to better protect independent retailers in a market often dominated by the big boys. We especially need to protect entrepreneurs and consumers, ultimately, from anti-competitive predatory practices, such as price fixing, as we have seen over the years in the oil industry.

By the way, the price of gas today is at 55 cents per litre, approximately. But we are still not protected—due to shortcomings in competition legislation—from practices that we believed to be predatory in the past, and that allowed gas prices to be set at unprecedented levels, to the detriment of consumers, independent truckers and the economy as a whole.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Charlie Penson Canadian Alliance Peace River, AB

Madam Speaker, I am happy to take part in the report stage debate on Bill C-23. The bill has had a lot of work, as many members have already identified.

Four main components were originally identified in Bill C-23. They are: the co-operation between Canadian and foreign competition authorities; the prohibiting of deceptive notices of prizes; streamlining of the tribunal; and also the broadening of temporary orders. We have added an important fifth category, that of right of private access. The Bloc members are trying to make some amendments today through Motion No. 1, which I want to speak to in a moment.

It seems to me that the amendments to be made to Bill C-23 regarding co-operation between Canadian and international authorities really just are a reflection of the nature of business. More and more business is international in scope and therefore we need co-operation in these areas. These amendments concern the civil competition matters and essentially mirror existing arrangements that we already have on criminal matters with the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act. This just applies to the civil aspect.

The change will assist the Competition Bureau in gathering information it needs to make decisions affecting competition in Canada. It will ensure that the decisions about domestic competition matters are made in Canada. We support that.

We are a little more ambivalent to the second category of prohibiting deceptive notices of prizes, We cannot hold people's hands; they have to take some responsibility for their own lives. If this would help, I guess we could go along with it. There needs to be more individual responsibility. When people get a phone call and are told that they have won $100,000 but they are going to have to send in $5,000 to get it, they should be pretty wary of what is coming at them.

The third category is the streamlining of the Competition Tribunal process by providing the tribunal with the power to award costs. I think this is an excellent one especially as we move into the area of private access in order to make sure that no frivolous actions come before the tribunal. It needs that.

It also has the power to make summary dispositions and hear and determine references. The summary dispositions essentially just mean that the tribunal can consider whether it wants to hear the case or not. If it is a trivial matter or one designed to find out what the competition is doing, the Competition Tribunal can dismiss it out of hand.

In order to deal with a couple of other aspects of broadening the powers of temporary orders, that is important, especially in the case of the airline industry where a huge industry can be put out of business in a matter of a few months. The cease and desist orders do need to be strengthened with perhaps longer periods of time. This is also aimed at putting severe penalties against those companies which embark on practices essentially to put a competitor out of business. If they ignore the cease and desist order they will be hit with severe penalties.

These are all important elements. However, I would suggest that competition law, although very important, is no substitute for competition. Sometimes Liberal members on the industry committee and here in the House tend to reflect on the idea that we do not need to have healthy conditions to allow business to operate here in a very competitive manner; we can just substitute that with regulation and intervention. If that were to work in the airline industry, this country would have a thriving airline industry. We know that it has not worked.

Intervention and regulation has hurt the airline industry. It hurts most industries. I believe that competition will flourish if we have the necessary business environment to allow that to happen. That means low taxes and low regulation. Also, things like interprovincial trade barriers have to be eliminated so that we can do business inside our country as well as we can do business outside our borders.

It seems to me that while we need to have this competition law, for those who will not abide by the competitive process, it is no substitute.

I want to deal for a moment with the Bloc amendment to Bill C-23. Our concern is that we think several of the amendments are redundant because they are already in Bill C-23. They are specifically subclauses 1, 3, 4 and 5.

In regard to subclause 2, currently under the refusal to deal provisions, the tribunal can order a supplier to do business with a distributor under usual trade terms. If the amendment were passed, it would cause the tribunal to become a trade regulator which is exactly what we are trying to avoid.

It seems to me that the people who came before the committee and who probably caused this amendment to happen were from the independent petroleum producers. I asked them whether the right to private access satisfy them. They agreed it would. They said that in the past the competition commissioner would not take their case up and bring it forward. He was acting as a gatekeeper. I asked specifically if they had the right to take the case directly to the tribunal, would that satisfy them. The answer was clearly yes. Having said that, they should pursue that option and not try to make more regulations. Let them make their case before the tribunal and determine who is right or wrong on the issue and live by it.

Subclause 6 would limit the commissioner's ability to participate in a private access case. He would get 30 days to intervene and after that he could only do it if the tribunal requested it. That is not necessary.

Subclause 7 would require consent agreements to be filed with the tribunal. Then it would be as though the tribunal had ordered an agreement.

We disagree with those aspects. The others as I named before, subclauses 1, 3, 4 and 5, are already in the bill. We do not support the amendments to the bill that are presented today.

Largely, we believe that the competition policy is serving us well. It is not meant to protect a competitor; it is meant to protect competition throughout the country.

It is very clear to the Canadian Alliance that there is no substitute for a healthy business environment. All the competition policy and law in the world, all the regulation, is not going to accomplish what we can accomplish by allowing as many competitors as possible to be in business. That is the best insurance that there is good, healthy competition across the country, lots of companies competing on a healthy market basis. They will provide the kind of assurances that we need in terms of competition policy.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Val Meredith Canadian Alliance South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC

Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to stand during second reading of Bill C-23, the amendment to the Competition Act, and speak not only to the amendment of the member for Laval Centre but to the entire bill.

As mentioned by the Minister of Industry, the amendments were proposed to make it easier for the government to co-operate with foreign competition tribunals. In the global economy it is important that governments have the ability to co-operate with each other when dealing with multinational organizations.

The bill was also introduced to prohibit deceptive notices of prizes. The member for the Canadian Alliance mentioned that it was the responsibility of the individuals receiving such notices to know there was a scam and that they were being set up. A lot of the people who respond tend to be elderly people who are lonely, who are by themselves, who do not get much mail and who in many cases are not completely aware of what is happening in the world and have no reason to suspect a it may be a sham.

For a lot of our older generation that is not part of the culture it grew up in or is one of which it is aware. It seems to be a relatively new phenomenon that letters go out telling people they have won a prize but must put money into it to collect. It is important that we have measures to limit and legislate against that kind of deception through the mail.

Bill C-23 was also introduced to streamline the Competition Tribunal process. Lord knows that any process dealing with quasi-judicial bodies needs to be streamlined. It was interesting to hear the minister's comments about not wanting to establish a culture of unnecessary litigation. His government seems to think it is quite all right to take Canadians to court and get into the litigation process. It will be interesting to see whether the government will take note of the amendments it has put into the Competition Act to limit unnecessary litigation.

The bill was also introduced to broaden the tribunal's ability to issue temporary orders. I know from my days as transportation critic that the competition commissioner and tribunal need to be able to react immediately to situations, even if the actions are temporary, to put cease and desist orders in place and allow some kind of remediation to occur.

Bill C-23 has already been to committee. It was dealt with at the committee level. Witnesses from the business community and elsewhere appeared at the committee to give their impressions of how the amendments might affect them. Two additional amendments were recommended at committee so we now have two amendments to the legislation that was originally put before committee.

One of these concerns is the private right to access. We have heard how important it is for companies, corporations, small business people and individuals to have the ability to advance their causes even though the Competition Tribunal may not think they are as important as other issues. As in many cases, once something is put on the back burner the damage is already done before it can be dealt with. It is important that private right to access be added to the legislation.

There are also tough new measures to deal with anti-competitive practices in the airline industry. Canadians across the country know the difficult times the airline industry has been through. We have recently seen the demise of the second largest air carrier in Canada, Canada 3000. Although the competition commissioner was prepared to put a cease and desist order, the process of applying for the order and having it put in place is often not quick enough to stop the damage that takes place through predatory or overtly anti-competitive practices.

The private right to access is extremely important. It allows private parties to apply directly to the Competition Tribunal for remedies concerning refusal to deal, tied selling, market restriction and exclusive dealing.

As I mentioned earlier, it is important for people to be able to challenge what is considered to be unfair practices by a competitor trying to put out a smaller competitor simply through the use of these kinds of tactics. It is very important to the well-being of members of the small business community to be able to fight back. This legislation will provide them with an opportunity to challenge larger businesses that are trying to put them out of business. It is a very healthy thing in the bill.

Private access also means that if the competition commissioner feels that something is not as important as, say, airline restructuring, it can still go through the process and it is not be tied up for years.

The legislation will create additional case law that will provide the business community with a better understanding of what the laws of the land are and how they might fall under the practices considered not to be in the best interests of competition. It will develop case law that can be used for the furtherance of fair business practices.

The amendments will allow for new penalties, including fines of up to $15 million for an airline acting in an anti-competitive manner. One of the concerns we heard in reaction to Canada 3000 going under and other complaints before the commission, was that the legislation had no teeth to allow the competition commissioner to respond in a way that would stop predatory behaviour. It is nice to see that the legislation will finally contain teeth so the competition commissioner will have some meaningful input into keeping anti-competitive behaviour at bay.

The ability of the competition commissioner to extend cease and desist orders beyond the current 80 days is very important. Because of the time it takes to prepare a case and to bring the complaint against a competitor, it is very timely and sometimes the application has not been processed before the cease and desist order expires. We are very pleased to see this extension because it will make the process more meaningful.

I want to bring up the fact that Air Canada is objecting to the amendments. It feels that it is not right that the competition commissioner or Competition Act would single out one industry, it being the industry being singled out.

Letters were sent from one of its bankers to members of the transport and industry committees claiming that this amendment will prevent the issuance of new equity shares to assist the airline in raising new funds. It should be noted that this would appear to have been very poorly handled by the company seeing as it was the Prime Minister's former chief communications officer who forwarded the letter to members of parliament. The letter which was forwarded to members and both the transport and industry critics was seen by some to have the appearance of a threat. From my discussions with many government MPs, it would appear that there is not a great deal of fondness for the message from the Prime Minister's former chief spin doctor.

The airline is concerned that these amendments were tabled after its appearance at the industry committee. I would think that is a legitimate complaint.

Some have sympathy for the airline because it was not given an opportunity to respond in kind to the industry committee after the fact. The industry committee would probably be wise to allow Air Canada to appear before it and have its case heard.

This is important legislation. We must make sure there is competition, particularly in the airline industry. The coalition will be supporting Bill C-23 at second reading.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC

Madam Speaker, I too am pleased to rise to speak to Bill C-23. Before I begin, I will say how happy I am to have this opportunity, as this legislation has been in the making for a long time.

First, I would like to congratulate my colleague from Laval Centre. The amendment she put forward is, in my view, quite relevant and interesting. By putting forward this amendment, I believe she proved how competent and multi-talented she is. My colleague from Laval Centre excels in a number of areas, including culture and health care, as she said herself. But I did not know she had such expertise in the area of competition. I want to congratulate her and tell her how happy we are to be able to debate this brilliant amendment in the House today.

That being said, we must give credit where credit is due. Although the government is unable to do so, for our part, we routinely recognize the value and merit of our opponents' work. This bill is the result of the work done by a number of members who do not belong to cabinet. They put forward private members' bills that caught the eye of the government to such an extent that it decided to include them in what I would call an omnibus bill, as it deals with various aspects of the Competition Act, with a view to amend and improve it.

The bills I refer to are Bill C-402 inroduced by the member for Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge, Bill C-438 by the member for Kitchener Centre, Bill C-471 by the member for Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine and Bill C-472, again by the member for Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge.

I am not sure that we need to conclude from this listing of the work by members, which the government has decided to use as a basis for drafting is Bill C-23, that the government is not interested in, or does not take into consideration, or does not choose to use, anything but suggestions from its own members. We must, however, be glad that the work done by MPs on an individual basis, or in other words the private members' bills and motions can gain momentum and end up with a positive outcome in the House, as is the case with Bill C-23.

I hope that the minister is lending an attentive ear to what we are saying this afternoon, because his very careful attention to the first speeches was obvious. Let us hope that same attention has been given to the last ones. I think he was justified in pointing out that the bill is the outcome of conscientious and non partisan efforts by departmental staff, of course, but also and primarily by the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology. For some months now, the committee has been addressing a potential review of the legislation and of the options and avenues that might be envisaged to tighten up Canada's Competition Act .

It is fortunate that, at the conclusion of this work, we were able before its examination to debate Bill C-23, which, as I was saying, is intended to act on certain suggestions.

However, it is unfortunate that the bill did not go further and that this pre-examination did not allow us to go further. The pre-examination should have allowed us to do so, because we had not accepted the principle of the bill. We could therefore have possible expanded the scope of concerns and the various amendments that could have been proposed.

It is also regrettable that the minister, while his speech was very carefully worded, if I can put it like that, set a rather partisan tone at the end of the debate, because, as he had indicated, up to that point the debate had been non-partisan.

We worked together as a committee to improve the bill. I think the amendment by my colleague from Laval Centre would have had the effect, the advantage, of improving the bill substantially. But since this amendment, it appears, did not come from a government member, arguments that I consider fallacious were cited to reject it, politely, I must say, but reject it nevertheless.

But it is not quite true that this amendment came from a member who is not a government member. And no, I am not announcing publicly that my colleague has decided to cross the floor of the House. However, her amendment was largely based on the work done by the hon. member for Pickering--Ajax--Uxbridge. This work resulted in certain provisions being included in Bill C-472, which sought to protect small retailers, particularly in the oil industry, and small businesses against bigger ones.

In this regard, when they appeared before the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology, the representatives of the Association québécoise des indépendants du pétrole mentioned—and the minister should reread their evidence—that some provisions in Bill C-472 seemed to promote their interests, including their access to the resource.

Right now, we have a quasi-monopoly in which the resource—crude oil, oil, gas, refined product—is provided by a very small number of companies. These companies are in a position to drive independent retailers out of business.

Bill C-472 included provisions which eliminated this power of the major oil companies over the small independent businesses. The Association québécoise des indépendants du pétrole had just one small reservation and its concerned the expression standard market conditions used in Bill C-472, which it wanted to see removed from the bill.

Why? Because the standard market conditions are defined by the major oil companies in this instance. These companies determine what these conditions are. So, they could have argued before the competition tribunal that the demands of the independent companies went against the standard market conditions they themselves established.

Also, as I said, with extraordinary prescience, my colleague from Laval Centre took from Bill C-472 the relevant provision but without the expression standard market conditions. She presented this amendment, which the hon. member for Pickering--Ajax--Uxbridge had himself considered, to the House.

Therefore, the minister should be more open to this motion in amendment since it came initially, not from an opposition backbencher but from a government member.

I invite the House to vote in favour of this amendment, which I believe is important for small businesses, independent distributors and everyone who is faced with a monopolistic or oligopolistic situation. I hope all members will support this amendment.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Is the House ready for the question?

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

The question is on Motion No. 1. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

All those opposed will please say nay.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

In my opinion the nays have it.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

I declare the motion lost.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

Glengarry—Prescott—Russell Ontario

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberalfor the Minister of Industry

moved that the bill be concurred in at report stage and read the second time.

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Competition ActGovernment Orders

2 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-43, an act to amend certain acts and instruments and to repeal the Fisheries Prices Support Act, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

An Act to Amend Certain Acts and Instruments and to Repeal the Fisheries Prices Support ActGovernment Orders

2:05 p.m.

Glengarry—Prescott—Russell Ontario

Liberal

Don Boudria LiberalMinister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

moved that the bill, as amended, be concurred in.

An Act to Amend Certain Acts and Instruments and to Repeal the Fisheries Prices Support ActGovernment Orders

2:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

An Act to Amend Certain Acts and Instruments and to Repeal the Fisheries Prices Support ActGovernment Orders

2:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

An Act to Amend Certain Acts and Instruments and to Repeal the Fisheries Prices Support ActGovernment Orders

2:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.