Debates of Feb. 27th, 2001

Business Development Bank Of Canada

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that the leader of the Conservative Party is making representations either as a result of direct dialogue with the former president of the bank or indirect dialogue with the former president of the bank.

This president is now before the courts with BDC sorting out a dispute involving millions of dollars. Is it appropriate for the leader of the Conservative Party to stand there and attempt to take that case before parliament when it ought to be adjudicated before the courts?

Grants And Contributions

[Val Meredith, Canadian Alliance, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, today the Prime Minister's spin doctor wrote a lengthy letter giving her version of the Prime Minister's sorry record of interference in government programs in his riding. Her story contradicts or ignores the facts given by her own boss, the auditor general and the ethics counsellor.

With four different versions of the same story, who is right: the Prime Minister, the auditor general, the ethics counsellor or the government spin doctor?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I read the letter carefully just before coming into the House. It supports completely in a clear and factual way the position of the Prime Minister.

The hon. member better get her eyes checked and read the letter again because there is no contradiction. It clearly supports the position of the Prime Minister, which in turn has been supported by the ethics counsellor.

[Val Meredith, Canadian Alliance, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, while the Prime Minister was able to work at lightning speed to get Yvon Duhaime his business development loan, it was nothing compared to speed of getting him the TJF loan.

The TJF grant was announced at a press conference on May 28, more than two months before it was even approved. Why did the Prime Minister override the department's approval process?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is incorrect in her assertion. Let me just review the facts.

The facts are that the project met the terms and conditions of the program. The facts are that $164,000 were invested in the project. The facts are that 19 jobs were created. There were other partners, the caisse populaire and the FDQ solidarity fund, and the project was fully supported by the provincial PQ government.

Summit Of The Americas

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, 34 heads of state will soon be gathering in Quebec City at the summit of the Americas and, as is only fitting, the premier of Quebec would like to be able to welcome them to his province.

Will the federal government, which is perfectly aware of this legitimate request by the premier of Quebec, finally authorize the premier to address the heads of state, as all Quebecers would like him to?

[Denis Paradis, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Government of Canada and the government of Quebec are in frequent communication in connection with the summit of the Americas. I am confident that together we will find a modus operandi with respect to the role of the government of Quebec at the summit.

The Prime Minister's personal representative, Marc Lortie, meets regularly with the representatives of the government of Quebec. These meetings, I am told, are very cordial and productive.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that if Quebec were sovereign, we would not have to beg for a place at the Summit of the Americas.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

It would go without saying, as it does for the states which will be represented by their prime ministers around the table.

Since the right of the premier of Quebec to address the 34 heads of state is subject to the agreement of the federal government, would it not show a minimum of respect for the people of Quebec—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

—to allow the political leader of Quebecers to welcome the 34 heads of state to our province?

[Denis Paradis, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, this is the same old broken record.

Discussions are being held with the government of Quebec on a wide range of topics to do with the summit. I think that the dialogue at this point is very constructive. We on the government side expect this dialogue to continue.

Business Development Bank Of Canada

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the facts are that on April 21, 1997, Yvon Duhaime wrote a letter to the Prime Minister asking for help in getting a Business Development Bank loan. HRD found out just two weeks later. It was amazing that funding was assured.

Shortly thereafter, just four days before the 1997 election was called, HRD funding was publicly announced. The fact is that was two months before it was even approved by the minister.

What was it: vote buying, protecting financial interest or both?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, this was about assisting an area of extraordinarily high unemployment. This was a program that was put in place to recognize the importance of tourism in an area of Quebec that needed help.

This was an undertaking that has been discussed many times in the House, an undertaking that has provided employment for citizens in a very high area of unemployment in Quebec. It is a project that we continue to support.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in fact it was extraordinary; that is for sure. On July 15, just a short while later, the Business Development Bank branch at Trois-Rivières wrote a letter to senior bank executives saying that the auberge was a “high global risk outside the normal policy and criteria of the bank”.

The loan had been approved and announced two months earlier, strangely enough during the 1997 election. How did grants and loans in the Prime Minister's riding get political approval prior to departmental approval?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, a couple of very important things. First, in his report last fall the auditor general concluded “In our view the project met the TJF criteria”.

Second, and perhaps most important, it may have been a risky project but today 74 people are working who would not have been working otherwise.

National Defence

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence is treating the military personnel who served in the Balkans and may be victims of depleted uranium munitions with unimaginable insensitivity.

As countries such as Portugal, Norway and Greece have done, does the government intend to have all soldiers—and I mean all soldiers—who served in the Balkans undergo a complete medical?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we are co-operating with NATO in studies that are being done. We have been involved in our own studies and we have certainly received studies from other countries. There has been no link, scientifically proven, between depleted uranium and any of the illnesses that Canadian soldiers have. Nor is there any indication that any rubble would cause disease.

However, to help our forces personnel with peace of mind, we have given them the opportunity to have testing done by independent laboratories, and we intend to continue on that course.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, some of the more courageous countries have called for a moratorium on the use of depleted uranium. Others are even threatening not to participate in peacekeeping missions. Once again, Canada is silent.

When does the minister intend to announce a clear position on depleted uranium?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we are not silent at all. It would be premature at best to agree to a ban on depleted uranium, given that there is no scientific evidence that links it.

We will certainly make sure that we continue to study this matter. We will continue to work with our allies to get to the bottom of what is causing the problems, the diseases that are being experienced by our forces personnel.

Grants And Contributions

[John Williams, Canadian Alliance, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, earlier today the government announced that it would spend $165 billion this coming year. The auditor general testified this morning that financial management has not been a priority for the government. He suggested that average Canadians run their budgets better than the Government of Canada.

Canadians have to put up with a $1 billion boondoggle, a shakedown at Shawinigan, Caribbean cruises and so on. Now we find that $26 million will be spent on the millennium bureau. The millennium is long gone.

Will the Minister of Finance tell us if there is a competition over there on who can waste the money the most?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member ought to read the documents carefully. What he is talking about is funding carried over to complete projects under way during the millennium year or that had to be postponed past the millennium year because it was necessary to finish federal environmental evaluations.

If the hon. member is not interested in having the environmental rules followed, if he is not interested in the facts of this matter, he ought to go back to the drawing board.

[John Williams, Canadian Alliance, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very interested in the facts. One of the other facts is that there is a crisis on our farms today and while every other department gets a raise—HRDC is getting another $2.5 billion—grants and contributions to the farmers are going down by $470 million.

There is a crisis on the farm. Why do they have to put up with less when everyone else gets more?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member understood the numbers that he looked at as well as he claims he does, he would realize and see that the liability was created in the same year as other payments were made.

It shows up on the books as being double in one year, but the liability was created then. That is where the liability has to be booked. That is the proper bookkeeping method of doing it. I am sure that is what the hon. member wants us to do and we will do it.