Debates of April 2nd, 2001

Prime Minister

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the facts are that in the September 29, 1999 agreement, the Prime Minister said that he had relinquished his right of ownership six years earlier. The same Prime Minister also said that he was going to protect Mr. Michaud and pay his lawyers if there was a problem In addition, the auberge's owner, Mr. Duhaime, said that there is a financial link between the two entities.

Is this not proof that there was a very clear conflict of interest when the Prime Minister approached the Business Development Bank of Canada to ensure the auberge's survival so that the golf club could find another buyer?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the important thing is that the Prime Minister was owed money by Mr. Prince after November 1, 1993, and this debt was paid by Mr. Prince. Mr. Prince sold all the shares he bought from the Prime Minister to Mr. Michaud on September 29, 1999. So there is no conflict of interest and the hon. member should withdraw his allegations—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Roberval.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is our impression that the Prime Minister contributed to keeping up the value of his stocks in the Grand-Mère golf club by saving the Auberge Grand-Mère.

The connection between the two was demonstrated by the owner of the auberge, under oath. He is the one who has said so, and in so doing has contradicted the Prime Minister.

Could the Deputy Prime Minister not accept, once and for all, that the Prime Minister is putting them in an awkward position with his statements that are contradicted—

[The Speaker]

The Deputy Prime Minister.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Absolutely not, Mr. Speaker. The one in the awkward position is the hon. House leader, because he is the one who said “Table the bill of sale and we will stop asking questions”.

He has broken his commitment to his colleagues and to the House of Commons. He needs to withdraw his questions because he made a commitment to the House to stop asking such questions.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it was understood by everyone that when I said to the Prime Minister “Table the bill of sale and we will stop asking questions”, that was because we had his assurance that the bill of sale was exactly that, and proved that the Prime Minister had sold his shares in 1993.

What was tabled, however, proved exactly the opposite. The shares were sold in 1999. That is why we are asking questions.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when the hon. member said “Table the bill of sale and we will stop asking questions”, he attached no conditions to that commitment.

Once again, the hon. member has broken his commitment and, I repeat, there is no conflict of interest on the part of the Prime Minister in this matter.

Trade

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the government is walling off democracy on Shawinigan and on the FTAA. In Quebec a wall is going up around the FTAA summit site. At the Canadian borders a wall has gone up to keep out those who dare to disagree with the government on the FTAA. The Pearson foreign affairs building looks like fort Pearson.

I ask a question of the trade minister yet again. Will he agree today to release the text of the FTAA agreement that his government is supposedly negotiating on behalf of the Canadian people?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, while the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency has primary responsibility for protecting our borders, those who require further examination are referred to immigration officers who work for my department, CIC.

All people seeking to enter Canada must satisfy either customs or immigration that they are here as genuine visitors. Those who are not genuine visitors are not granted admission to Canada.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, those who are welcome are those who will support the FTAA and nobody else. The concrete walls around Quebec and stone walls here in parliament is an outright denial of democracy.

The government prefers to be accountable to the governments of Chile, Colombia and Peru, anybody but to the people of Canada. It prefers to be accountable to the BCNI and America's megacorporations than to the citizens of Canada. When do governments get to see the FTAA text? Where is the text? Will the minister—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister for International Trade.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian position has been on the website of my department for a year. Never in the history of international trade negotiations has there been one as transparent as this one.

The NDP might well say it is not transparent enough. The NDP might say do not bother about the rest of the Americas. We know where the NDP belongs. That is not where Canadians want us to go.

Prime Minister

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Yvon Duhaime's sworn testimony specifically talks about golf packages. The advertising of the auberge specifically advertises golf packages with the Prime Minister's golf club. Mr. Duhaime earlier said and I quote:

We send people to play golf and they send people to have supper...If it weren't profitable, would we continue?

Will the Deputy Prime Minister now admit there was a financial link during the time that the Prime Minister's agent was negotiating the sale of the Prime Minister's shares?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I understand there are as many as six golf courses in the area and that the auberge welcomes golfers from all the golf courses in question.

Furthermore, at the time the Prime Minister made representations for a loan from the Business Development Bank to the auberge, the Prime Minister had no ownership interest whatsoever in the golf course. Yes, he had a debt owing to him but he was not connected in any way, shape or form with the golf course. The value of the debt did not change no matter what happened with the golf course.

Those are the facts and the hon. member ought to admit this because he knows he is wrong.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, six golf courses and the only one with which he claims they had no financial link was the one right next door. What absolute nonsense.

In September 1996, Claude Gauthier, a friend of the Prime Minister, a contributor to his campaign and a serial recipient of government grants, purchased land from the Grand-Mère Golf Club at a price well above market value.

Would the Deputy Prime Minister tell the House if the Prime Minister, his private company or his agent received any of this money? Were they privy to decisions as to how that money was spent?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that the Prime Minister's holding company sold all the shares that it owned on November 1, 1993 to the company of Mr. Prince. Therefore the Prime Minister had no interest whatsoever in the golf course from and after that point. He had a debt owing to him by Mr. Prince's company and it was eventually settled. Mr. Prince's company resold the shares that he had purchased from the Prime Minister to Mr. Michaud. I say to the leader of the Conservative Party to please address his questions to Mr. Michaud or Mr. Prince.

[Diane Ablonczy, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said in a letter to Canadians published in the National Post that he would never influence the Business Development Bank. Later, when the bank was trying to collect on the loan to the Auberge Grand-Mère, the Prime Minister's pressure on the bank was revealed in sworn testimony.

The Prime Minister also said that there were no ties between the golf course, for which he had not been paid, and the inn, which he forced the Business Development Bank to prop up against the bank's better judgment. Now it turns out again in sworn testimony that the financial survival of the inn was tied to the golf course.

Would the government explain why sworn testimony keeps contradicting the words of our Prime Minister?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker the answer to the hon. member's question is so obvious we do not need the Minister of Industry to answer.

The fact of the matter is that the Prime Minister exerted no pressure. Suggestions to that effect came from somebody who is suing the Business Development Bank because of his losing his job. There are allegations that this particular individual inflated his pension and things like that.

The member ought to be careful about stating things as fact which have not been demonstrated as fact. The Prime Minister did not pressure—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary—Nose Hill.

[Diane Ablonczy, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I guess, in his desperate struggles to defend the indefensible, the Deputy Prime Minister has forgotten that the Prime Minister himself acknowledged that he put pressure on the Business Development Bank and phoned its president on more than one occasion to give a loan to a clear, money losing proposition.

Would the government get its facts straight and explain why sworn testimony on more than one occasion directly contradicts our Prime Minister in the House of Commons?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has not acknowledged putting pressure on the Business Development Bank.

The quote that is being referred to is a deposition by the gentleman in question in which he says to the liquor licensing board that summertime is a good time for him to have a licence because in the summertime he has golfers, high school graduations and wedding anniversaries. It appears that all these people like to imbibe in some cool refreshment. I do not know what the big deal is here today.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in a recent poll, between 56% and 60% of those who were polled wanted an inquiry on the Prime Minister's actions, 78% felt that all the documents should be released, and 63% were of the opinion that the Prime Minister's behaviour was either reprehensible or very reprehensible.

Will the Prime Minister realize that not only are opposition parties demanding an independent inquiry, but that the public also wants some light to be shed regarding his behaviour in the Auberge Grand-Mère affair?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, according to a poll—which is credible I hope—82% of Canadians want the opposition to move on to other issues.

The Bloc Quebecois obviously has no interest in the real issues that are important to Quebecers. Where are the questions on lumber? Where are the questions on the economy?

The Bloc Quebecois is not defending the interests of its constituents and it should apologize to its constituents, because they are not—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans.