Debates of April 25th, 2001

The Economy

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, at the meeting of the finance ministers of the western hemisphere, two weeks prior to the Quebec summit, we did discuss this. The vast majority of the finance ministers said that it was a remarkable turnaround the Canadian economy had seen with the elimination of the deficit, the largest paydown of debt in Canadian history and the largest reduction of taxes in Canadian history.

In fact, most of the finance ministers would have agreed with the conference board today which said that the first quarter of 2001 was one of those rare moments in history when a huge dose of fiscal stimulus was actually occurring at exactly the time that it was needed.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister talks about a huge paydown in debt. He has paid down less than half of the amount of debt that he added to the national debt.

Today we learned from Statistics Canada that the leading economic indicator has dropped for the fourth straight month. We also know that retail sales have slipped. Manufacturing shipments are down by 19% over the past four months.

How can he continue to talk about a rosy scenario when all the economic indicators are on a downslide?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have made it very clear that the signals are mixed. In fact we are monitoring the situation very closely.

I just think that it is really incumbent upon the hon. member as well to be balanced and not to be fear mongering. He talks about retail sales. He is wrong. Retail sales were up 1% above the fourth quarter of the year 2000. His facts are wrong.

As far as the payment of debt, the Alliance Party recommended that we pay down debt by an average of $6 billion a year. The fact is that we have paid down debt by $7 billion on average over the last four years, $1 billion more than it ever thought it could do.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, wrong again. We proposed a legislated minimum of $6 billion a year, which would add up to a whole lot more, with 75% of unanticipated surpluses going to debt reduction.

The minister talks about the IMF report which reported that over the last three years our productivity growth has been about a third of the productivity growth in the United States.

How can the minister continue to say that Canada is leading the world when in fact our major trading partner sees its productivity growing three times as fast as here in Canada because of his high tax high debt policies?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I just want to understand this legislated debt paydown. Is that the legislated debt paydown that the then Alberta treasurer, now Leader of the Opposition, brought in when he was the treasurer of Alberta and then had to amend six months later when he could not hit the target? Is that what he is talking about?

Francophone And Acadian Communities

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the new minister responsible for official languages has inherited quite a challenge.

Assimilation is taking a heavy toll on Canada's francophone and Acadian communities, despite the courageous efforts of these communities. According to Statistics Canada the rate of assimilation is constantly increasing and stood at 36% in the last census.

If the minister truly wants to change this state of affairs, and I hope he does, and come up with solutions, will he first admit that he must recognize the problem of assimilation from which these communities are suffering, rather than deny it, as the federal government has for too long done?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the government has never denied that there were problems and we intend to do everything necessary to correct the problems that have been identified.

I simply wish to say that I will be very pleased to receive any advice the member has to give as a parliamentarian, but his political party, with its plan to establish an international border between the francophones of this country, lacks all credibility in this regard.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, those who have no credibility are those who make such remarks because, if there are problems, they are attributable to the federal government, even with Quebec still in the federation. The sovereignists have undertaken to recognize and maintain the rights of Anglo-Quebecers in a sovereign Quebec.

When the minister implies, and this is too often the case with federal ministers, that communities would no longer have rights without Quebec, is this not blackmail, because these communities should have collective rights, whether or not Quebec is there, because these communities exist in their own right in Acadia and throughout Canada, whether or not Quebec is a member of the federation? This is blackmail.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it stands to reason that the worst thing that could happen to the francophones of this country would be to find themselves divided by a move to separate, which in no way serves their interests.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before we hear about blackmail, let us talk about the best thing that could happen to francophone and Acadian communities.

The commissioner recognizes that the best services to minority communities are provided in Quebec. Anglophones have health, cultural and educational services in English.

Will the minister pledge to propose to the provinces to provide services for francophones and Acadians that are equivalent to those provided to anglophones in Quebec? That would be best. Will the minister deal with this issue?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is all together that francophones will succeed in promoting the cause of French in Quebec, in Canada and all over the world.

This will definitely not be achieved by a political party that called francophones outside Quebec dead ducks, francophones-poof and paraplegics.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when I hear the minister continuing to resort to blackmailing these communities, when I hear the Prime Minister say that if there were problems it is because of cuts, I wonder how he explains the cut of $100 million that he made to his official languages support program, while at the same time investing $60 million to create the Canada Information Office, which is mostly active in Quebec.

Would it not have been better to use that money to help communities in anglophone provinces across Canada, communities that are in need and do not have access to the same services as Anglo-Quebecers in Quebec?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, for the first time in human history, the number of languages in the world is diminishing instead of increasing.

For the first time in human history, a language, English, will become an international language to an even greater extent than Latin was in antiquity.

Canada is the one country in the world that has shown the way to linguistic pluralism. We have shown that we were right to do so.

The Economy

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, according to the Toronto Dominion Bank, the government's policy to accelerate economic integration with the U.S. means Canada might just as well abandon its own currency and just cede control of its monetary policy to the Americans. That is where the Prime Minister's love affair with the FTAA is leading us.

Canadians need to hear loud and clear that the government categorically rejects this recipe for Canada's demise. Will the government give that assurance today?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the NDP has somewhat misread the article.

The document by the Toronto Dominion Bank said that dollarization would not be the appropriate policy at this time. It then went on to say “However, it might be at some future time”.

If what the hon. member wants is a categorical refusal to go the dollarization route, if what the hon. member is looking for is a reaffirmation of this government's intention to maintain monetary sovereignty, I am delighted to say that is exactly this government's policy.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, within 10 years does not seem like much of a future, far off date.

The finance minister mouths words about maintaining control of our currency, yet the government cannot change the rules fast enough to weaken our ability to do that with changes to the financial services act and through propelling us further into an ill conceived FTAA.

The government promises to maintain our currency and systematically erodes the very foundation of the Canadian dollar. Is the government doing this in total ignorance or is it sheer hypocrisy?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, given the positions that have been taken by the NDP and given those criteria and the elements one requires to have monetary sovereignty, it is a little hard to understand her question.

The fact is that elimination of deficits and the pay down of debt are part of that. The NDP has opposed that. Reduction of taxes is a part of that. The NDP has opposed that. In fact in all areas where the government has sought to invest to support the new economy, research and development and regional development, all areas which would build the new economy, the NDP has consistently taken a position of voting against the government.

The fact is that her positions taken in parliament—

[The Speaker]

The right hon. member for Calgary Centre.

Business Development Bank Of Canada

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. The Business Development Bank asked Justice Silcoff for an order that included the destruction of documents. That is a very unusual request, and the judge refused it.

Why did the crown corporation request the destruction of documents? Was the Prime Minister or anyone on his behalf involved in any way with the decision to ask the court to order the destruction of documents?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, neither the Prime Minister nor his staff was involved in any effort to get a court order on this matter. I challenge the accuracy of the hon. member's remarks about destruction of documents.

In any event this was done by the bank, an arm's length agency from the federal government. The Prime Minister was not involved.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have another question for the Deputy Prime Minister. The Business Development Bank documents confirm that its own loan analysis showed that the Auberge Grand-Mère loan was very high risk.

When the Prime Minister was lobbying the Business Development Bank on behalf of Mr. Duhaime, was he advised of that unusually high risk? If he knew that this involved such an unusual risk of public funds, what special circumstances caused him to press for this loan?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it has been put on record many times that the decision was made within the bank according to its usual practices.

A validation of the decision by the bank is through the fact that the local caisse populaire and the Fonds de solidarité des travailleurs du Québec looked at this project and decided to share in its financing. They were not linked in any way with the Prime Minister who made representations properly as a member of parliament.

The decision was made within the bank. It was validated by the caisse populaire and the worker solidarity fund. If the hon. member wants to attack these arm's length bodies, it shows just how weak and empty his arguments are in this matter.

Ethics Counsellor

[Jim Abbott, Canadian Alliance, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of Shawinigate, the ethics counsellor has shown his love of travel. As a matter of fact, other than Canada, he has visited 22 countries in the last three years, all at taxpayer expense.

Could the minister explain how the ethics counsellor can find many international destinations but does not seem to be able to find the Prime Minister's riding in Quebec?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has now found a new way to sink to a new low, attacking the integrity of a distinguished public servant. He ought to be ashamed of himself. He must have travelled a long way to get even deeper in the mud than he is already.

[Jim Abbott, Canadian Alliance, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Quite the contrary, Mr. Speaker. The call is for an independent public inquiry. We have the ethics puppy dog who has been to South America, Australia, China, and Europe, all on the taxpayer dime. He has never found his way to Shawinigan, Quebec.

This is why Canadians are demanding that we have a full independent public inquiry. When will we get it?