Debates of April 5th, 2001

Canada Foundation For Sustainable Development Technology Act

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

I would advise the hon. member that this is not the end of debate. This is the first round of debate on the bill. The hon. member will have whatever time is left from the two minutes or one minute to continue when the bill comes back to the House.

Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Gerald Keddy, Progressive Conservative, South Shore, NS]

Madam Speaker, I will take my two minutes to thank you for asking. If we will be able to debate the bill when it comes back to the House, I would certainly take my 40 minutes at that time.

[An hon. member]

It is 20 minutes.

[Gerald Keddy, Progressive Conservative, South Shore, NS]

We only have 20 minutes. Now we get into trouble. It is a slippery slope.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

Let me clarify something in terms of the point of order the hon. member raised. To be clear, there is no list. It is a courtesy that has been decided upon by the House leaders. It is true that we go through a certain rotation that has been agreed by the House leaders.

It is also true that the hon. member from the Bloc did not stand at the same time, but he did stand and it was his turn. He had the 40 minutes if he wished to avail himself of them. The hon. member will have 20 minutes beginning the next round.

[Gerald Keddy, Progressive Conservative, South Shore, NS]

Madam Speaker, I think I have about 30 seconds left to add a few comments today. It would certainly be a mistake if I did not take full advantage of the minute and 30 seconds or so that I have today to speak at least briefly to the bill being debated.

I appreciate the fact that we will be able to come back to the bill at another time, shorten our speaking points a bit and be able to get another kick at the proverbial can.

We in the Conservative Party would applaud a number of things in Bill C-4. The whole idea of sustainable development and a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions are commendable projects that everyone in parliament would tend to support.

Unfortunately, it is the legislation itself. It is how it is worded. It is how it is crafted. It is the fact that there is not a sunset clause in it. It is the fact that there is no accountability. It is the fact that the auditor general is not able to look at the books.

There are a number of things wrong with this particular piece of legislation that could have been corrected at committee and report stage. Government members failed to do that. We have a better piece of legislation than we had to begin with. It did a slightly better job but it did not go all the way. For that reason, we certainly cannot support this piece of legislation. It is my understanding that the rest of the opposition parties cannot support it either.

I will be more than happy to continue and debate this on another day at another time.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

It being 5.30 p.m., the House will now proceed to consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Alcoholic Beverage Labelling

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

moved:

That in the opinion of this House, the government should consider the advisability of requiring that no person shall sell an alcoholic beverage in Canada unless the container in which the beverage is sold carries the following visible and clearly printed label: “WARNING: Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can cause birth defects.”

Madam Speaker, it is an honour for me to introduce a motion in the House this afternoon calling upon the government to consider the idea of labels on alcohol beverage containers for the purpose of dealing with a preventable tragedy in our society today, fetal alcohol syndrome.

It is a pleasure to have this time in the House today to discuss something of such importance to today's society. This motion is calling upon the government to require alcoholic beverages to carry a warning label as part of an all-out campaign against fetal alcohol syndrome.

I want to begin by expressing some thanks for the work that has been done leading up to the debate here today.

First, I want to express appreciation to members of the all party subcommittee of the House for agreeing to make the motion votable.

Second, I want to pay a special tribute to a member of the House who has worked long and hard on issues pertaining to fetal alcohol syndrome and who has in fact pioneered the notion of labels on alcohol beverage containers here in Canada today. I am referring specifically to the work of the member for Mississauga South. It is very important that we recognize the work of that member because he has led the way in the House for many years in pushing very hard for education programs pertaining to fetal alcohol syndrome and in pursuing the idea of labels on alcohol beverage containers.

You are no doubt fully aware, Madam Speaker, of the work of that member in terms of a book he wrote. I refer specifically to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome: The Real Brain Drain , and a campaign he initiated called “Drink Smart Canada”, which lists a number of conditions that are either directly or indirectly due to alcohol.

I want to mention the work of the member for Mississauga South in pursuing this matter before the House. In fact, I am not the first one to bring the matter here. The member for Mississauga South has done so previously in the form of a bill, introduced in parliament and dealt with at the Standing Committee on Health two parliaments ago.

I want the record to show that we are following in the footsteps of other people's work and that has to be recognized.

I also want to thank members of all parties for their support on this issue. There has been support and encouragement from representatives of every single party in the House today. I think we have the basis for a non-partisan approach to a very serious issue. It is my hope that we have a real possibility in society and in parliament to achieve something that until recently we thought was impossible.

The whole idea has not only been pursued by the member for Mississauga South in parliament, but it was pursued actively by a standing committee of parliament back in 1992. I am referring specifically to a comprehensive study done by the then standing committee on health and welfare entitled “A Preventable Strategy”.

One of the recommendations of that report was to add warning labels to alcohol products informing Canadian consumers of the danger that drinking while pregnant could cause birth defects. That was a very useful document that shed tremendous light on a very serious issue in our society today. It created tremendous public support and interest for pursuing the idea of labels on alcohol beverage containers.

Over the course of the past decade, numerous members of parliament and activists have been involved in building awareness around the issue. It is important for all of us to acknowledge the extent of the work done by the professionals, volunteers and other advocates who have worked for many years, first to have the condition of fetal alcohol syndrome recognized and then for programs to assist individuals and their families to cope with this disability.

Many others have worked to sensitize teachers and other professionals, and still others have focused on educating the public. Among those, many have campaigned for warning labels on alcohol as a means to raise public awareness.

That is what we are dealing with today. We know that this is not the be-all and end-all in terms of a solution to a very serious problem in our society today. We are presenting it as one element of a comprehensive education strategy to address a very serious problem in Canada today, fetal alcohol syndrome.

Some have asked me why I am bringing this issue forward. I want to give a little background. First, this is a continuation of work I did when I was a member in the Manitoba legislative assembly and is a follow up to our attempts in that province to achieve some form of labelling on alcohol products. That work demonstrated for me the difficulties in pursuing labels on a provincial jurisdictional basis, being informed fairly early on in that debate that we needed a national strategy.

Some jurisdictions have taken steps to put labels on alcohol beverage containers. I want to mention the work in both the Yukon and the Northwest Territories that pursued this and implemented a form of labelling back in the early 1990s. They recognized early on that there had to be some notification, some attempt to make women aware of the dangers of drinking while pregnant and how it could lead to birth defects, and the possibility of fetal alcohol syndrome.

In Manitoba we did not win the battle for labelling but we at least achieved the ability to put messages on the brown paper bag in which alcohol bottles were placed. It was a step. It was my hope to continue that fight here. It is great to be able to follow in the footsteps of others who have done this work.

I also feel an obligation to represent my constituents on something as important as fetal alcohol syndrome. No community is spared the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome. Some communities have a higher incidence than others. In parts of my constituency of Winnipeg North Centre there is a very high incidence of fetal alcohol syndrome.

It is related and tied directly to poverty, despair, depression, unemployment, poor economic circumstances, lousy housing and lack of nutritional food. That reflects the demographics in my constituency. It is understandable how that leads to a greater incidence of drinking and a higher incidence of fetal alcohol syndrome.

I think I bring to this Chamber the expressed intention on the part of constituents is to have me pursue this matter.

In my constituency there are a number of organizations that are working very hard on some groundbreaking projects that are making a difference bit by bit. They have to be acknowledged. We have to in this place do whatever we can to acknowledge those efforts.

I am thinking specifically of a school by the name of David Livingstone which is in the heart of the inner city of my constituency, where the problems of economic and social insecurity are enormous. The school has taken up the challenge of putting in place a program that will help identify the problem of FAS and help develop programs that will meet the needs of those children. There are no textbooks. There is not a lot of help out there in terms of how to actually work with kids with fetal alcohol syndrome. However it is making a difference, and I wanted to acknowledge the work of the David Livingstone school and its principal, Angeline Ramkissoon.

The other reason I bring this matter before the House today is a very personal one. I happen to have a son with a disability. My son is 16 years old. He was diagnosed with a rare genetic disability when he was three years old. As a result of that, he has severe learning disabilities, profound developmental delay and lives with uncontrollable seizures.

In the case of my personal experience, my son's disability is not related to fetal alcohol syndrome but that is neither here nor there. The issue for me is that having the experience, as a parent, of living with and caring for a child with a disability reminds me each and every day that we have to do everything we can in this place to help parents, families and children who are dealing with disabilities.

When we think about this debate and the work that is involved, we have to remind ourselves that we are talking for a lot of families who are struggling on a day to day basis with some very difficult challenges and we have to play our part.

It is sometimes hard to separate the personal and the political. In my case, I do not think I can. The personal is the political. The challenges I deal with on a day to day basis, the experience I have learned through working with my son, have made me a more effective member of parliament and have driven me to pursue issues such as this one.

One thing I learned, in terms of addressing the needs of my son Nick, is that we must do everything possible to help children with disabilities but we must also, whenever possible, find ways to prevent disabilities, if they are preventable.

Today we are dealing with a disability, with a syndrome that is entirely preventable. Let us make no mistake about it. We are talking about fetal alcohol syndrome which is a condition that can be prevented. It is caused by a woman drinking while pregnant.

If we can do anything to inform women to take precautions during pregnancy and to try to prevent any child from being born with fetal alcohol syndrome, then we will have done a great service. There is no pretence here today that we are going to wipe out fetal alcohol syndrome. There is no suggestion here today that every child born with a disability is the result of drinking while expecting.

What we are saying is that there is a link between drinking while pregnant and fetal alcohol syndrome. If we could make women aware of the dangers of drinking while pregnant, then we would have made a big difference. Even if one child is spared fetal alcohol syndrome because we have taken action through a measure as simple as putting labels on alcohol beverage containers, then we would have served our constituents and the people of the country well.

There is much to say about fetal alcohol syndrome, and I know other members will talk about it today. I hope the member for Mississauga South has a chance to speak because he is truly familiar with the issues.

We have to remember that we are talking about a syndrome that is the most severe in a spectrum of abnormalities found in the children of women who have consumed alcohol while pregnant. It is the leading cause of developmental delay. No accurate statistic exists on the total number of individuals with FAS but estimates indicate that there may be as many as three children per 1,000 births.

When we add the whole question of fetal alcohol effects, a related syndrome to FAS, we are talking about many more and the numbers rise significantly. There is no cure and the damage cannot be undone. The main feature of the condition is that it can be totally eliminated through prevention.

My plea today is for the House to build on the work of other members who have come before me and who have tried to accomplish something that is fundamental to a comprehensive strategy on fetal alcohol syndrome: to provide warning labels on alcohol beverage containers. That does not seem like a big deal, especially when we consider that labels have been required by law in the United States for over 10 years. The United States government has, since 1989, required all alcohol beverage containers to contain warning labels. No dire consequences flowed from that decision. The alcohol industry is still alive and well. Everything that we have heard about the reaction to that decision has been positive.

People who are not addicted to alcohol and women who are pregnant have taken note. People who would not otherwise be aware of the link between drinking while pregnant and fetal alcohol syndrome are taking note. It does help and it does make a difference. That is the point of today's debate.

The member for Mississauga South referred the following quotation to me which says it all. Denny Boyd, who wrote an article in the Vancouver Sun on November 27, 1995, said:

The intended purpose of warning labels on alcohol containers is to act as a consumer lighthouse, sending a signal of impending danger.

Does that not say it all? We are a lighthouse sending a warning, sounding the alarm bells about the possibility of the dangers that can occur when drinking while pregnant.

We are trying to make a difference and there is a real possibility of that. In the last number of years, since the member for Mississauga South and others in the House worked on the issue, there has been a growing awareness about what fetal alcohol syndrome really is and what kind of consequences it can have for all of us. We know more today about the millions of dollars society spends to support one child with fetal alcohol syndrome. We also know more about the links between fetal alcohol syndrome and juvenile delinquency.

We know that probably over half the cases we are dealing with on a day to day basis in terms of juvenile delinquency are directly related to disabilities. Some of those disabilities are related to fetal alcohol syndrome. If we understand the consequences for society then should we not take whatever steps we can to make a difference?

That is what we are proposing today. I look forward to hearing from members of all parties about the value of the motion and about whether we can continue the work started by the member for Mississauga South.

We should not only consider it because it makes good public policy sense, but we should consider it because we have the backing and the support of many thousands of Canadians right across the land.

A recent survey indicated that Canadians in large numbers supported the idea of warning labels on alcohol beverage containers. An Environics poll conducted for Health Canada and released in January 2000 found that 90% of people approved of warning labels and that two-thirds of those asked strongly approved of warnings on alcohol beverage containers. The report on the poll concluded that there was substantial public support for initiatives to inform people about the risk of alcohol use, including warning labels on alcohol products and others.

We have public support and the support of other provincial and territorial jurisdictions. We have the commitment and the dedication that we bring to this place. We should not lose this moment. We should act today.

[Yvon Charbonneau, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Madam Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I speak to Motion M-155, which reads as follows:

That in the opinion of this House, the government should consider the advisability of requiring that no person shall sell an alcoholic beverage in Canada unless the container in which the beverage is sold carries the following visible and clearly printed label: “WARNING: Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can cause birth defects”.

Before beginning, I wish to congratulate the member for Winnipeg North Centre most sincerely on moving this motion.

Before I address the motion itself I should like to recognize the longstanding efforts of my colleague, the member for Mississauga South. Members on both sides of the House will be aware that he has been involved with the issue for many years. He has been an advocate for efforts to combat fetal alcohol syndrome. I applaud his tenacity.

Furthermore, this tenacity was reflected in certain undertakings by the Prime Minister in his Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne on January 31.

I am pleased to stand in support of the motion. I agree that warning labels on alcoholic beverages should be considered. Currently Yukon, Australia and some U.S. jurisdictions require alcohol warning labels. While research studies demonstrate that it may not be the most effective way to reach groups at a high risk of alcoholic use, it is timely to review these findings.

However, warning labels on alcohol must not be taken in isolation. They must be part of a comprehensive strategy to combat alcohol abuse, which in turn can lead to fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects. An effective comprehensive strategy must include a number of elements: awareness-raising campaigns, research, life-skills based approaches, and substance abuse prevention programs.

Let me outline quickly what the Government of Canada is doing to address the tragedy of fetal alcohol syndrome.

A wide variety of measures have been and are being implemented in Canada to address this syndrome. These measures have included extensive attempts and many programs to educate the public about the dangers of drinking while pregnant.

On January 28, 2000 a fetal alcohol syndrome-fetal alcohol effects initiative received $11 million for three years. This was an announcement that we made at the time and the program is now under way. This initiative builds on the excellent work currently being done in the provinces and territories and in communities by parents and support groups.

The $11 million in funding is being used to enhance activities in a number of areas, including public awareness and education, surveillance, early identification and diagnosis, fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects training and capacity development, co-ordination, integration of services, and a strategic project fund.

Health Canada has established a national advisory committee on fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects. The committee will provide independent strategic advice and expertise to Health Canada on fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects and promote collaboration and partnerships across disciplines and sectors.

Health Canada is also working with the provinces and territories to develop a national public education and awareness campaign on this syndrome and on fetal alcohol effects. A joint launch of a poster and pamphlet is expected in May 2001.

Furthermore, the First Nations and Inuit Health Branch is also developing a fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects public awareness campaign that reaches out to first nations and Inuit populations in a culturally sensitive manner.

In order to ensure access to appropriate treatment for pregnant women with substance use problems, Health Canada also provides funding to the provinces and territories through the alcohol and drug treatment and rehabilitation program. Also through this program, Health Canada promotes best practices, evaluates model programs, and disseminates leading-edge information.

Health Canada is also providing funding to the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse to enhance the national information service and the On-Line Fetal Alcohol Syndrome-Fetal Alcohol Effects training project for frontline workers in the Canadian prenatal nutritional program and the community action program for children.

Health Canada, working with key stakeholders, will be conducting a national survey of physicians to determine current knowledge, beliefs and attitudes with respect to fetal alcohol syndrome and diagnosis. The First Nations and Inuit Health Branch of Health Canada is working with the Indian and Inuit health committee of the Canadian Pediatric Society to identify diagnosis criteria. The information will be used as a baseline measure for policy and education initiatives geared toward health professionals.

Finally, Health Canada will be hosting a national forum in the fall of 2001 for the purpose of developing a national action plan for fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal alcohol effects involving the relevant sectors: education, corrections, social services and jurisdictions across Canada.

These initiatives are just a few of the many activities taking place across Canada to combat this syndrome, but they give a good picture. Although Health Canada recognizes that the majority of adult Canadians use alcohol in a way that is not harmful to their health, it is we who must combat this serious problem on behalf of Canadian children.

If this motion is passed by the government, as we hope it will be, the consideration by the House of Commons of the desire expressed in Motion M-155 will no doubt contribute to raising public awareness and go a long way to improve the situation.

[Keith Martin, Canadian Alliance, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to this very important motion, Motion No. 155. I compliment the member for Winnipeg North Centre and the member from Mississauga for bringing the issue up.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is one of the reasons children incur brain damage in utero. It is the leading cause of preventable brain damage in Canada. It is extraordinary. In some communities the rates are very high and exceed 12 children per 1,000. The cost is about $350,000 per child up to the age of 18, not to mention the massive human cost to the individuals and families involved.

I draw attention to the fact that it is not only alcohol that causes children to be born with brain damage. Other substances, such as glue, gasoline and illegal drugs, can poison the brain of a growing fetus and the damage in many cases is irreversible. We must therefore look at the issue in a much larger context.

I agree with the parliamentary secretary that the evidence is out on whether labels are a solution. However, I strongly urge the government to look at the issue in a larger context to see how we can more effectively prevent substance abuse and the incidence of FAS and FAE. As I said before, the damage is due not only to alcohol but to glue, gasoline and illegal drugs.

In my clinical experience, every pregnant patient I have ever met who consumed these injurious substances knew full well that they would damage the baby. Every one of them knew this. Fifteen year old girls accompanied by their caregivers have told me they did not care what happened to their baby. They said that they would keep the baby if it was cute and give it up if it was not. When asked if they cared whether the child had been damaged by the chemicals they said that they did not.

This is less a question of knowledge than of other issues. Much of the alcohol consumed by pregnant women who will deliver FAS and FAE children is produced at home. They throw potato peels, yeast and a few other things into a big vat, let it ferment and the result is beer of sorts. That is what is consumed, not the brand names bought in the liquor store.

What can we do to address substance abuse problems and reduce the incidence of FAS and FAE? New medical technology shows clearly that substances in the neuropathways of the brain travel around in a circle. We must therefore deal with the neuropathway of the addict's brain.

People must be taken out of the drug environment. New medical tools work very well along with the usual detox and counselling. Some European models, particularly Switzerland and the Netherlands, have a 60% cure rate after one year for substance abusers, particularly hardcore narcotic abusers. That is absolutely extraordinary.

I know from personal experience that many of the things we do today make people go around in a circle. They do not address the problems in a substantive way. I therefore encourage the government to work with its provincial counterparts and to look at some of the European models with high success rates. An effective approach involves not only detox, counselling and medical therapies but also skills training, jobs and a secure environment away from the drug environment these people are in.

Let us talk about prevention. We can look at the head start program. We passed the program in 1998. It works. It is not only cost effective but has brought about a dramatic reduction in substance abuse. It will reduce fetal alcohol syndrome. There will be less chance that the baby the woman carries will be marred by FAS, FAE or other brain damage.

I have put forth a bill that would enable the courts to put a woman in a treatment facility against her wishes if she is consuming substances that are injurious to her fetus. It is not an abortion bill, and would apply only to cases where the woman has chosen to take her pregnancy to term. If the woman has repeatedly refused all treatment and is of sound mind she can be put into a treatment facility against her wishes.

The parallel to this is what is done for psychiatric patients who are a danger to themselves or to others. It is not a punitive action against women. It is merely a last ditch effort to try to help prevent those fetuses from suffering the problems of FAS and FAE. When I put the bill forward, and I have put it forward three times in the last three parliaments, people who said they supported it were individuals who work with children with FAS and FAE and their families.

The NDP member made an articulate description of the social issues surrounding these problems. She could not be more correct. In many aboriginal communities with extraordinarily high rates of FAS and FAE, we must determine how we can enable them to have the best social program of all, which is a job.

Unfortunately our country has chosen to compartmentalize aboriginal people. We have chosen to treat them differently. We deal with them differently through an Indian Act which creates a form of apartheid. It has been highly disruptive to these communities. It has eroded them from within and it has prevented them from being able to be masters of their own destiny, as well as capitalizing on the economic opportunity that should be available to them.

High rates of unemployment and poverty have contributed to the high levels of FAS and FAE. Matthew Coon Come, grand chief of the first nations, has made some very articulate statements that should be supported for aboriginal communities to get their own house in order and for aboriginal leadership to do so as well. That would be a welcome change in many communities and one that we would support as well.

We must deal with the issue of substance abuse in a much broader range. We need to deal with prevention through the head start program. We need to deal with new treatments that we have today such as the European model that works with detox, counselling, medical therapy, skills training and getting people out of their drug environment for an extended period of time.

The latter is very important because we know that if addicts go back into the drug environment a chemical cascade takes place within their brains. They become excited and are prompted to resume the substance abuse consumption they were doing before. We also need to look carefully at private member's bills that have been put forth on the issue.

There is also the case of Miss M in the home province of the member from the NDP. She was a young woman who as a result of glue sniffing had two children with brain damage. She was put in a treatment facility against her wishes. A court challenge took place and after a period of time she was released. However she was off her drugs and she got her life back in order. She delivered a baby that was the first baby she had that was not brain damaged.

When she was asked whether or not the short period of time in a treatment facility, albeit against her wishes, had an impact, she said that it did. She said that it was probably the most important thing that had happened to prevent her from having another child that would be irreversibly brain damaged.

I can only prompt the House to look at it from the context of our judicial system too because we know that almost 50% of the people in our jails have some form of FAS and FAE. They have severe problems with cognitive skills. They have severe problems trying to acquire the skills necessary to be an integrated member of society. As a result many of them get into the unfortunate cycle of crime, punishment and incarceration.

These are the challenges of today that have not been dealt with in a very pragmatic way. However, these are the opportunities that the ministers of justice and health can use their skills toward by working with their provincial counterparts.

It would require a national approach involving the provinces, the Government of Canada and other communities to deal with this scourge. I am very happy and I compliment the member from the NDP and members from all sides who have brought to the attention of the House the problems of FAS and FAE as well as some of the issues and challenges that we must address to solve this important problem.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Madam Speaker, first I would like to add my voice to those of my colleagues to congratulate and thank the member for Winnipeg North Centre, whom I know very well since we work together on the Standing Committee on Health.

I know that the well-being of people in her riding and of Canadians in general has always been her first priority. Obviously, being pragmatic, she wants to take concrete measures to deal with an important problem for children.

As our colleague from the Canadian Alliance said, we are the protectors of children in a way because the problem we are debating is certainly detrimental to mothers, but it is even more detrimental to children.

I believe that as parliamentarians we have a responsibility to make sure that we do all we can in the area of prevention.

I think the motion brought forward by the member for Winnipeg North Centre is interesting because it forces us to reflect on the balance between coercion and prevention that must exist in the legislative tools available to us.

Recently in the House we have been reflecting a lot on these issues. Last Friday, another member of the NDP proposed that the month of May be dedicated to the prevention of hepatitis. He reminded us that there are seven types of hepatitis and that one way to prevent this disease is, of course, through information.

Today, his colleague from Winnipeg North Centre is taking over to remind us that fetal alcohol syndrome is preventable.

We all know people afflicted by illness. Some suffer from cerebral palsy, others from severe diabetes, others yet from heart disease. This is obviously very tragic on a personal level, but it is different perhaps from fetal alcohol syndrome in that FAS is, in a way, the result of a behaviour.

This behaviour can be avoided. It can be avoided if we put everything into play socially so there is maximum information available to those who are primarily responsible, since they give life, carry the children and, of course, are women. I am not saying they have sole responsibility.

I want to join with the member for Winnipeg Centre North. I think our ridings are quite similar. My riding is in the centre of Montreal, in the eastern central part, to be more precise. I too in my riding have a high number of underprivileged people. It is an industrial neighbourhood which underwent a major process of de-industrialization in the early 1980s.

I do not know if people recall, but there was a big crisis in the shipbuilding industry in the early 1980s. There was a big crisis in the traditional industries linked to textiles and metallurgy, known as the soft sector, and there was a major crisis in the shoe industry.

These three sectors were central to the economic life of the riding of Hochelaga—Maisonneuve. It is a riding with a high number of underprivileged people. It is clear that fetal alcohol syndrome is to be found in communities with high levels of poverty. In this regard, we can ask ourselves as parliamentarians why there is more poverty in certain communities than in others.

There are of course personal variables. There are variables relating to the manufacturing profile and to the economic profile of our ridings. But in the life of an individual, sometimes things go badly. We lose confidence in the system. I would say there are unwanted pregnancies sometimes. There are people who plan pregnancies, who want to have a child and for whom doing so gives meaning to life. I think this is true for most people.

There are probably circumstances in life where if a pregnancy is imposed, unwanted, accidental, a woman might be tempted to turn to alcohol. When things are not going well, when we are depressed, when we lose confidence, when we are in an environment where we feel useless, alcohol may unfortunately become a form of escape. This is why the proposal of the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre makes such sense.

In my speeches I always like to give examples. No member of parliament could present a bill to force someone to make a success of his or her life. From a legislative point of view, we cannot force people to do so. What we can do as parliamentarians is provide them with tools and training so they are equipped as best as they possibly can be to go through life, and particularly rough times.

The hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre is asking us to rely on information. Sometimes, pregnant women may not be adequately informed. If they see this warning on alcoholic beverages—wine, beer and other spirits—we can assume that it will deter them from drinking excessively.

Earlier, the parliamentary secretary and member for Anjou—Rivière-des-Prairies told us that this motion must be part of a set of means. I am pleased to learn that in May an information campaign will be launched with the release of a brochure and a poster. I believe that all these tools can help us beat fetal alcohol syndrome.

I see that I only have three minutes left. I promised to take only eight minutes because I know that there are discussions between the parties to leave more time for the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre.

So I will conclude by congratulating the hon. member and asking for a unanimous vote on her motion.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Madam Speaker, I too, will be brief. The quality of the speeches made by the previous speakers was such that I could even refrain from taking part in this debate.

First, I think the member for Winnipeg North Centre and the member for Mississauga South deserve to be congratulated for the interest they have been showing in this issue for several years. Some nine or ten years ago, a committee presented a report on fetal alcohol syndrome. Recommendation no. 5 dealt with labelling.

Other measures were also recommended at that time. Some were implemented only a few months ago or a few years ago. We know the government is slow and this is why opposition parties have to push a little.

Thank God something else was done. The government helped to some extent, but it must be noted that the industry, as a result of that report or other reports, realized the importance of awareness and education campaigns and started to do something about it.

We saw brewers and winemakers, state monopolies such as the SAQ in Quebec, take a portion of their revenues, a small one of course, to educate people on the effects of alcohol. An effort to increase awareness has been made over the last few years by the provincial governments, which control their liquor boards, by the federal government and by the industry. However, there remains an issue that is pretty important: labelling.

Of course, we should not get into a labelling frenzy and get to the point where a bottle of beer or a bottle of wine carries several warnings. Too many warnings kill the message.

However, there is nothing better than to start at the beginning. If someone is aware of fetal alcohol syndrome, that person might also be aware of the global impacts of alcohol for the rest of his or her life. If a woman is not too familiar with the consequences that alcohol can have on her unborn child, with a good education program and adequate warning labels, other people will let her know.

Of course, when we see a label we do not pay too much attention to it, but when we see a pregnant woman close to us we tend to say “Be careful”. I have the chance to have a little boy, my angel. I never even thought of offering a glass of wine to my wife when she was pregnant. If she had taken one glass of wine, the baby would not have suffered from the syndrome. That is not the point, but at least there is an awareness. If everybody was more aware of all this, we would hear less comments like “Come on, just one little glass will do no harm”. But sometimes we do not know the effects that alcohol can have on a person. There again, we should not panic. The baby will not develop the syndrome with just one glass. All this is a matter of awareness.

This is why we are wondering what consequences the labelling done in the United States will have, as we said earlier. Of course the industry is worried. This is normal. When we see other legislative follies, I think the industry is right to be alarmed.

That said, the industry's current labelling practices for exports might well apply domestically as well. What finer message to send to the public than to tell them that parliamentarians, in a motion introduced by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre, are going to force the government, in a manner of speaking, to take them into consideration. We will have to cross our fingers and hope that the motion will acquire a “C” instead of its present “M” and that it will lead to a real bill the House will be able to consider very quickly.

I will stop here. I thank my hon. colleague from the NDP for her initiative. Speaking of the New Democratic Party, I often treat the opposition parties well, but the NDP has been—and we see this evening once again—a sort of social conscience for the country. We are very glad of its existence.

[Stan Keyes, Liberal, Hamilton West, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre listed those who have devoted themselves to building awareness of the importance of drinking responsibly. To be fair, one group the hon. member forgot to mention is the Brewers Association of Canada.

Warning labels on alcohol beverage containers on their own will not put an end to the most serious problem of fetal alcohol syndrome. In fact research has shown that 98% of women of childbearing age already know about the link between alcohol misuse and fetal alcohol syndrome. They are already aware of it.

I have a brewery in my riding. There are many members of parliament with breweries in their ridings. I believe the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, the member for Etobicoke North, has two breweries in his riding. We will not apologize for the fact that we have breweries in our ridings, because since 1987 the Brewers Association of Canada and its member brewers have devoted well in excess of $100 million to communicating messages about the importance of drinking responsibly.

In addition to high profile advertising campaigns, brewers provide significant funding and other resources to a range of partner organizations involved in alcohol research, counselling, and the direct delivery of educational and awareness programs.

Putting a label on a bottle on its own will not do the job. It is all the other work that is being done currently by those who are responsible, by those organizations like the Brewers Association of Canada.

For example, there is the Motherisk program of the Hospital for Sick Children. Canada's brewers sponsor Motherisk's national toll free alcohol and substance use help line, 1-877-FAS-INFO, which provides callers with fact based information on how alcohol and substances can affect a developing fetus.

There is the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse. Funding is provided to the Fetal Alcohol Resource Centre of the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse, which acts as a clearing house for information on FAS-FAE for medical professionals, parents and children.

The BAC, the Brewers Association of Canada, provided funding to the College of Family Physicians of Canada to design a program for family physicians called the alcohol risk assessment and intervention, ARAI, program. The ARAI method gives family doctors the tools needed to identify patients most at risk, which helps them identify and help patients with problems related to harmful alcohol consumption.

Brewers sponsored the caring together program of the Native Physicians Association, which produced an FAS information poster series, video and guide, as well as an interactive board game aimed at native youth, which uses traditional symbols and teachings to address native lifestyle and health concerns. This is not just a label on a bottle but actual traditional symbols used by our native communities so they better understand the problem.

The Brewers Association of Canada together with Young Drivers of Canada developed a video message that tells new drivers not to drink and drive. We have all seen it. This message, delivered by professional race car drivers, is seen by more than 40,000 new Canadian drivers each and every year.

The Brewers Association of Canada initiated a partnership with L'Université de Moncton and the University of New Brunswick to develop Internet based activities for use in schools to educate young teens about alcohol.

The BAC is a partner in a computer based training software focused on the safe operation of personal water craft. BAC messaging encourages responsible behaviour and urges people not to drink and drive on the road or on the water. Other program partners include Bombardier and Shell Canada. This is a team effort. It is a delivery of a message by all concerned.

Since 1982, Canadian brewers and their U.S. counterparts have funded the Alcohol Beverage Medical Research Foundation. Associated with Johns Hopkins University, it provides research grants to study the medical, social and behavioural impacts of alcohol consumption. The foundation has provided more than $30 million in funding to 480 research projects here in Canada and in the U.S.

How about Speak Up, Speak Out, Be Heard? This is a multimillion dollar public service alcohol information campaign targeted specifically at young people using concepts and messages developed by young Canadians to be relevant to people their own age.

In order to leave time at the end of the debate to ensure that we have an opportunity to have a vote on this particular issue, I will conclude with the following words. The president and CEO of the Brewers Association of Canada, Sandy Morrison, said:

We work with a lot of people who are dedicated to bringing important information about responsible behaviour to those who need it. At a very human and personal level, these people are making a difference.

At a very human and personal level, these people are making a difference.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)]

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen