Mr. Speaker, at the outset I offer the fact that I am heartily sick of the bill. It has made its way through three parliaments and three separate incarnations. It has gone on for over seven years and has been subject to a 30 hour filibuster by the Bloc. At some time or another enough is enough. The bill has morphed through many changes over those years, but it is important to get it as right as possible since it will become the bible for youth justice.
The filibuster by the Bloc was quite irritating. It will never be happy unless it gets its own criminal code and youth justice bill. There is nothing the Government of Canada could or should do to try to make the Bloc happy. The Bloc cannot be accommodated. We should move on.
The problem with a filibuster is that only one person gets to speak. It is the ultimate insult to parliamentary democracy. I have to listen to the member but he or she does not have to listen to me. The corollary result is that it leads to legislative fatigue and amendments such as the ones introduced by the minister do not get the scrutiny they deserve because debate time is eaten up by those who were implacably hostile to the bill.
Even after the reintroduction of the bill and the committee's somewhat reluctant willingness to open up to deputations from the provinces we heard some evidence on funding and other issues. The evidence was somewhat dismal. I do not know whether the additional money is adequate, but when the deputy ministers and others were asked directly about additional increases to the CHST, both in cash and transfers, their responses were somewhat platitudinous and disingenuous.
A cynic might suggest that the ministers from the various provinces send their minions to Ottawa for one last squeeze at the federal government after they had already won or lost their internal provincial dispute within their departments over the allocation of the new federal money that had already been transferred through the CHST. It is a bit of a mug's game and every province always claims that it never has enough resources, read money, to do the job.
The Bloc filibuster resulted in much less time than one would have liked to review the amendments. Just before the rise of the last parliament the minister introduced quite a raft of amendments in response to the evidence to which she had listened over the course of a number of months. For instance, the amendment which gives regions, read Quebec, the option to raise the age of exposure to adult sentences from 14 to 16 for the six presumptive offences offends the notion that there is one law for all youth regardless of where they happen to reside in Canada.
In the name of flexibility a youth on one side of the Ottawa River runs one risk and on the other side a lower risk of receiving an adult sentence for the same offence. Sometimes local needs and circumstances create a Swiss cheese result across the nation. Allowing provinces to opt out would however be ridiculous, but allowing a province to dictate the threshold to obtain flexibility is somewhat problematic.
In the name of flexibility we have created a patchwork which begs for a constitutional challenge. Assuming that Ontario has a low age threshold of 14 and Quebec has a high age threshold of 16 for the six presumptive offences, a well advised youth might well do his criminal work in Hull rather than in Ottawa. How much sense does that make? How ironic, for in some bizarre way it almost attracts criminal activity to Quebec.
Quebec made certain claims that it had a kinder and gentler system. The evidence however suggests otherwise. Mr. Bégin claims to have a system geared to rehabilitation. What Mr. Bégin has is a system of diverting youth from the criminal justice system, which has specific sentencing and evidentiary requirements, to a child welfare system where periods of incarceration are sometimes indefinite and frequently longer than specific sentencing requirements. The evidence for the offence is somewhat less rigorous than one would get in a criminal court. Again, if our proverbial delinquent is well advised, he should commit his crime in Ottawa rather than in Hull, as the offence would be dealt with in a more rigorous fashion.
Lord help us from those who claim to be locking them up or treating them for their own good. That is a great way to lose a kid in a system over a relatively minor offence.
The disingenuous argument of Quebec is even further disingenuous when it is contradicted by the fact that Quebec actually had the second highest rate of transfers to adult court.
In Ontario the government holds to the myth that punishment alone protects society. Research does not support that view. It could be argued that if protection is the most significant issue, as is punishment alone, it is counterproductive and only leads to a well trained young criminal as opposed to an amateur. Adult time for adult crime is a catchy phrase but just awful youth policy.
I am quite incensed by some of the incidents I read about in newspapers. If individuals are locked up and the proverbial key is thrown away and then they are pitched over the proverbial prison wall after they have done their time, a criminal disaster is waiting to happen.
Ontario is rampant with contradictions. It was invited to participate in the parliamentary hearings and declined to do so. Having done so, it then set up its own hearings. Ontario's big thing is moving kids from the youth system to the adult system. It has made repeated statements to that effect. Unfortunately the evidence does not support its contention because last year it only moved six kids from the youth system to the adult system.