Mr. Speaker, I would first like to express my gratitude to the Chair for deferring this matter in order to hear my brief submission, as well as the submission of my learned friend.
I will be focusing in on procedural, as opposed to legal or constitutional arguments, which is where I believe the focus should be on this particular point.
The issues at play are very important and very complex. They go to the very pith and substance of responsible government. The sad part is that it is the failure of the government to act responsibly that has given rise to this bill.
The ruling of Speaker Parent dealt with the content of Bill S-13. Bill S-15, we are told, was drafted to answer some of the procedural objections raised by the Chair. This bill of course we know originated in the Senate. Others have also addressed that point and supporting material has been filed with the Chair.
Speaker Parent's ruling seemed to reject, based on a common sense approach or standard, that the industry could not possibly want something that would hurt its own cause. Yet there is a clear indication that the industry does in fact want this scenario and has asked for it on previous occasions.
The logic seems to be that the industry was possibly in the process of hurting itself, yet the Speaker seemed to think this was implausible. Following that logic, if the industry was in favour of causing harm to children this would be illegal. We very much need to look at what the industry has said in this instance.
The government House leader has suggested that the levy proposed in the bill amounts to a tax and therefore a burden on the people. However there is proof that it is not a tax. If one examines in detail the provisions of the bill one will find that it is not a tax.
Let us look closely. The charge is made not on the population at large but is placed on the industry itself with the proceeds directed specifically and narrowly. The proceeds are to be used completely outside the process of government and, I hasten to add, for a positive benefit: the promotion of health and healthy living of young Canadians. The proceeds are not to be used by the government but are for private use.
There is a precedent for this situation. It is dealt with on page 763 of the 18th edition of Erskine May. At this point I must recognize that Speaker Parent resorted to precedent from the 22nd edition of May.
There is a corollary issue surrounding the issue of competing editions of this volume and the degree to which the house of commons at Westminster continues to indirectly legislate this parliament, but that is best left for another time. I will return to my friendly 18th edition of May where I find compelling precedents that outnumber the modest rule of the 22nd edition.
Speaking of instances where levies have been treated as matters outside the ways and means rules, Erskine May cites 10 instances of bills which oppose levies and levies which have been used for purposes other than direct positive benefits to an industry. The levy can be used for other purposes. Clearly precedents exist both in the jurisdictions of Great Britain and Australia. I submit that this is the case with respect to Bill S-15. I am quoting from page 763 of Erskine May which states:
It may sometimes be difficult to define the limits of an industry, as in the Wheat Bill, 1932 (which was treated as within this rule) under which levies upon importers of flour formed a fund for making payments to growers of wheat. An even more difficult case was the Mineral Workings Bill, 1951, under which a fund fed by contributions from ironstone operators, owners and the Exchequer was set up to restore agriculture land from which iron ore had been extracted. This again was held to be a levy on the operators and owners though it involved some extension of the rule.
The royal recommendation was required on the mineral workings bill because of the contribution required from the exchequer. That was significant in the House as recorded in volume 486 of Hansard , column 1809. There was no royal recommendation required in the instance of the wheat bill. Both bills passed both houses without being treated as taxes.
It is my submission that Bill S-15 has nothing to do with public funds. It distinguishes itself from the traditional definition of tax because there is no reference to public funding. All money collected from the companies would go directly to the foundation and would bypass general revenue. The government would not touch it. The origins and arrivals would not evolve around the government or the public purse. It would in no way impact in terms of a revenue generating source.
Further, it distinguishes itself from any traditional definition of tax because there is no reference to public funding. If one were to look at it from a Canadian analogy or perspective, perhaps one should ask if it would be proper to originate a private bill in the Senate which established an enterprise such as a railroad, a church or an international bridge. In that legislation the enterprises were given the duty to carry out certain objectives and in return the right to make enforceable charges upon their clientele.
That is the situation that applies in this instance. There is a willing customer and a willing vendor seeking the right to carry out an enterprise under the authority of the Parliament of Canada.
The Speaker knows that private members' bills can and indeed regularly originate in the Senate. All sorts of special conditions and powers are granted to those private situations. When a bill arrives here from the Senate, the House does not look into the question of how the Senate views the bill. It arrives here not as a Senate public bill or a Senate private bill, but rather as a bill passed by the Senate to which the concurrence of the House of Commons is requested.
If the House is to restrict the right of the Senate to send us private bills which contain financial powers for the applicants, there will be a significant problem for canals and international bridges that levy tolls and for churches and other bodies established under the authority of the Parliament of Canada.
Mr. Speaker, in conclusion, I thank you again for facilitating my contribution to this procedural issue. As you have said, it is an important issue for the public to understand. The political issue is not one over which you have any influence. You are acting as referee on questions of compliance within the rules of the Chamber. All members understand and appreciate your duties in that regard.