Debates of May 8th, 2001

National Drinking Water Standards

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in the red book of the last election we talked about it. We put in $2.6 billion effective January 1, 2001.

When the provincial and municipal governments have projects to improve the quality of the water in their localities, the federal government will be very happy to pay one-third of the cost.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister indicated today that he has never discussed with the finance minister the parliamentary reforms we are reading about in the newspaper.

It is a great opportunity today for him to get a jump on the finance minister in terms of parliamentary reform by indicating to us whether he will allow his MPs to vote freely today on behalf of their constituents on the issue of water safety and security.

It is an issue that is coming up right away. I know he is resisting the urge to say something else, but will he allow his MPs to vote freely on this issue today and get a head start on the finance minister?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we always have discussions within the party. We have had more free votes under this administration than ever before.

When we look at the previous seven years there has been a lot more free votes on this side than on the other side and less members have been kicked out of caucus.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, you will notice that there was no answer to that question. Just a few months ago the government House leader and the member for Toronto—Danforth had been exploring a very interesting idea of a parliamentary committee on the issue of water.

That seemed like a pretty good idea to this side, and it turned out the Prime Minister said no way. Will he say today that a parliamentary committee on water would be an excellent idea? Yes or no.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the House leaders' meeting will be this afternoon at 3.30 p.m. I am very much looking forward to the meeting this afternoon to discuss this and any other issue.

The hon. member said that it was this side of the House that refused it before. He should get his facts straight by speaking to his own colleague.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let us get this plain and clear. The member for Toronto—Danforth and the House leader approached with an idea and that idea did not go through.

Will these two individuals, along with the support of the Prime Minister, today commit that we will have a parliamentary committee on the issue of water? Yes or no.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know which part of yes the hon. member does not understand this afternoon. We have indicated before that this is what we wanted. We are still obviously in favour of that which we wanted. Let us hope that is the case.

In any event, the hon. member can listen to the deliberations later this day or consult his own colleague to see whether yes is something that is agreeable to everyone else.

North American Free Trade Agreement

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, at the Quebec City summit, the Prime Minister declared that chapter 11 of NAFTA governing disputes between investors and government worked well.

Yet the Prime Minister should know that Canada is accumulating setbacks under chapter 11. Following Ethyl Corporation and S.D. Myers, a tribunal has found in favour of Metalclad over Mexico, in a matter of expropriation, despite Canada's opinion to the contrary and its intervention.

In the light of all these examples, will the Prime Minister acknowledge that chapter 11 creates problems, since it severely restricts countries' sovereignty?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that we have an agreement with the United States and Mexico. NAFTA was established in 1994. There are a few cases where we did not win.

I said, and I repeat, that in all of the trade we have, for example, with the United States, which amounts to over $1 billion a day, the number of cases is not very great.

We have said that when we negotiate the agreement with all the Americas, this chapter will be re-examined by all the other countries, and we will be in a position to assess—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Laurier—Sainte-Marie.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it would be worth knowing the Canadian position, especially in reference to the last case mentioned, that of Metalclad, in which the Mexican town of Guadalcazar, which wanted to establish an ecological reserve and denied Metalclad a permit for its toxic waste burial site, will have to pay out compensation in the amount of $25.5 million.

Since the Prime Minister sees only petty disputes under chapter 11, does he find if fair that a country has to pay out millions of dollars to a company that wants to establish a dump—

[The Speaker]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am not in a position at the moment to analyze the situation in Mexico and whether land acquired has been expropriated and permits have been given.

I think, in the case of Canada, we have been well served. There is always room for improvement, but under the relations that we have, for example with the United States, the number of cases is minuscule, compared with the volume of our exchanges with them.

As I said, and I repeat, in the negotiations with the countries of the Americas, all the countries will have an opinion on this chapter, and we will see whether we need to change it.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in addition to those three defeats Canada has sustained, there is the UPS case. This delivery company is taking the federal government to court for $230 million in damages.

UPS's claim under NAFTA, chapter 11, is that Canada Post's courier service is unfair competition to it.

Does the Prime Minister still maintain there is no problem with chapter 11, when the integrity of a public service as essential as Canada Post is in danger?

[Pat O'Brien, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister has said and as the minister has repeated, given the full context of our trade with the United States, chapter 11 is working reasonably well.

The opposition cited the case of Metalclad just a moment ago. It is interesting to hear the president of Metalclad decrying the fact that he sees the ruling as a loss for his company.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, until very recently, the government's web site said, to quote from this famous Internet site, “Canada is not advocating the replication of NAFTA investor-state rules in the FTAA”. Strange to say, this position on investments has disappeared from that site.

Could the Prime Minister tell us what position on chapter 11 the Minister for International Trade has gone to Washington to defend today in his meetings with his Mexican and American counterparts?

[Pat O'Brien, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, as my colleague has noted, the minister is having the opportunity this week to raise the issue of chapter 11 and other issues with trade representative Zoellick and with his Mexican counterpart.

The fact of the matter is, as the Prime Minister has said, the clause works reasonably well. One would think the sky was falling, to listen to the Bloc. There is a grand total of five cases involving Canada. Quite frankly we have done pretty well in these disputes.

National Drinking Water Standards

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, one of Canada's most eminent ecologists and water experts, David Schindler, said last year that water quality had become another casualty of federalism. That would seem to be what happened to the Tory motion today, that it has become a casualty of federalism.

Does the Prime Minister not see that what is needed in the country at the moment and what there is a mandate for in parliament and across the country is national leadership on the establishment of national enforceable standards, not guidelines but standards? Will the Prime Minister show some leadership in this regard and say that he will lead Canada into a century of clean water?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I just explained that we have a program of infrastructure that is available to all municipalities to improve the quality of water everywhere in Canada. It is there.

The hon. member says that we should not respect the constitution. We can have national standards but we cannot impose them unilaterally. We have to discuss with the provinces, but the water supply is generally speaking a responsibility first of the municipalities and after that of the provincial governments. We have established some guidelines that we invite all provinces to follow. If they want, we would be very happy to make them a federal law.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the Prime Minister there is no constitutional mandate that he has to only offer one-third of the cost for a lot of the infrastructure development that needs to go into place. Why can they not up what they are prepared to share in terms of the cost?

While they are at it, why do they not do it in their own jurisdiction on aboriginal reserves where they do not have any provinces to deal with? That is a place where the federal government can establish an example that provinces could follow and do on reserves what needs to be done right across the country: have standards and have them enforced.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as far as the federal government is concerned in our own jurisdiction. Where we are responsible, we take the necessary steps. In the case of northern Saskatchewan it is not an Indian reserve. It is a municipality within the responsibility of the Saskatchewan government, an NDP government.

[John Herron, Progressive Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. Will the minister tell the House whether the government would agree to act immediately with the provinces and territories respecting their jurisdiction to ensure enforceable national drinking water standards, not guidelines, that would be enshrined in a safe water act?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I can tell the member that I am prepared to work with my provincial partners toward making sure that Canadians have the safest drinking water possible.

The House has heard the word leadership over the last couple of minutes in connection with water. The way the government and the Prime Minister have shown leadership is by having twice annual meetings with provincial governments to talk about the guidelines on water safety. We continue to do that. Provinces then meet their responsibilities to make sure water is delivered safely to Canadians.

[John Herron, Progressive Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the tenor of the Minister of Health's response but, having said that, Canadians are looking for more leadership from the federal government.

What is the Government of Canada prepared to do to expedite the concern of Canadians over their drinking water?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we are prepared to continue working with provinces to make sure we have a consensus on levels of concentration of chemicals and other materials in water to keep Canadians healthy and to make sure they have the drinking water they need. That is what we have been doing for the last eight years with provincial governments.

I am quite happy, as I have already said, to work with my provincial counterparts and ask them if they think that their job of delivering that water would be made easier if they had a federal statute.