Madam Speaker, with respect to money to the provinces, the auditor general's concern was not that the federal government sent money to the provinces or that the money then became the domain of the provinces, but that the federal government was unable, with any certainty, to indicate the amount of money it actually contributed to the health care program. He felt it was important for that to be quantified, and for obvious reasons, then there could be debates on whether it was sufficient, on how it was being spent or on any of those things.
There also has to be some accountability. If the federal government wants to hold itself out as the guardian of the Canada Health Act, then it needs to have some guarding capability and some accountability measures. An example of that would be the $1 billion being spent on new equipment, which the minister just mentioned. When asked about whether that money was actually spent on new equipment or whether provinces were simply using it to buy equipment they had already ordered, therefore being of no net advantage to patients or to citizens, all he could say was that the government was working on a report card from the provinces.
A shell game seems to be going on. The government says that it is guarding the act and giving out all the money but when we ask how much and how it is being spent, it passes the buck by saying that the money is going to the provinces. It cannot be both ways. Either there is a guardianship and some actual investment, which means that it can show something for its investment, or it is simply a loose arrangement and nobody knows the results of the investment. We need to be honest and not try to either claim credit or assign blame.
The other item is this idea of a review of estimates committee. I hate to agree with the member opposite, because it goes against the grain a little bit in this place, but on first blush it seems to be a very sensible suggestion for about three reasons.
First, not all of us are bean counter types. I know my hon. colleague is a very well respected and competent chartered accountant, so I use the term bean counter types in the most positive and complimentary sense. It is true that some people have those sorts of skills while others do not. Some people attend Harvard and others attend MIT.
Second, there is some coherence and consistency in attacking the estimates rather than having a kind of hit and miss depending on the time, the commitment and the agenda of a particular committee. All the estimates would presumably be given the same level of scrutiny.
Third, we could then hold someone's feet to the fire. Instead of saying that none of the committees really came up with much, we could look at the review of estimates committee and ask why everything was kind of waved through without so much as a critique.
I concur with my hon. colleague that it would be a very good proposal to look at. Unless someone educates me better, I will be supporting that.