Debates of June 13th, 2001

Access To Information

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, that will be up to the ethics counsellor.

However, now that the Alliance has misspent its research budget on this opinion about this document, I presume it will next be turning to other issues of importance to it, like whether the sasquatch exists, the Loch Ness monster exists or where exactly the Bermuda Triangle is located.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in his annual report, the information commissioner condemns the slowness of the ministers to change the culture of secrecy that guides the government in its processing of the access to information requests.

John Reid is even concerned that the government will take advantage of the review of the legislation to systematize the secrecy and make all documents relating to Canadian unity inaccessible.

Will the President of the Queen's Privy Council, the advocate of clarity, recognize that the commissioner's concerns are valid since the government is already secretive when it comes to Canadian unity?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I find it very interesting that the opposition quotes only certain comments from the commissioner's report and does not quote, for example, the following:

—one must recognize that the Access to Information Act is working remarkably well.

Hundreds of thousands of records are disclosed each year. For every complaint made to the Information Commissioner at least ten other individuals obtained good service from government under the Access to Information Act.

The commissioner went on to say “This is a good law, a very good law”. He continued by saying “There is, happily, a growing recognition of the importance of good information management—”

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the commissioner says this is not the problem. The problem is not the act, but those who implement it, who behave exactly like the minister just did by not answering questions. This is the problem.

For instance, Option Canada received close to $5 million from Canadian heritage during the 1995 referendum campaign. In spite of the requests made under the Access to Information Act, it is impossible to know what Option Canada, which was on the no side, did with the taxpayers' money.

Will the minister admit that the culture of secrecy exists and that it guides the government in its review of the access to information requests, particularly when they deal with—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Justice.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that this government is committed to openness. One of the reasons we are reviewing the access to information legislation is that we want to ensure we have the best legislation possible. We want to ensure we build upon the culture of openness in which this government has taken a leadership role.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, for two years now, the Bloc Quebecois has been asking for legal analyses of the supreme court ruling, but the government is defying its own Access to Information Act and depriving our members of documents of interest.

Is this not a very conclusive illustration of the unacceptable behaviour of the federal government, which has been criticized by the information commissioner?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate again that which the information commissioner himself has said. He said the act “is working remarkably well”. He went on to say:

Hundreds of thousands of records are disclosed each year.

There is...a growing recognition of the importance of good information management to the achievement of the government's business strategies and goals.

I think those statements say it all.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, documents the Bloc Quebecois tries to obtain under the Access to Information Act are censored so heavily by the government that the ones we have received more often resemble some sort of game of guess the word than complete texts.

How can the government disregard its own Access to Information Act and hand over to the Liberal Party of Quebec documents it refuses to make available to parliamentarians in this parliament?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate that the government is committed to openness. That is why the government has decided to commence a review of the access to information legislation.

If there are ways we can improve on the legislative framework or on the administration and management of access requests, we are committed to doing that.

National Defence

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

It is plain for all to see that the Americans are intent on barrelling ahead with the national missile defence program. George Bush in Brussels yesterday dismissed the antiballistic missile treaty as a mere relic from the past.

Has the Canadian government decided as well to dismiss the ABM treaty as a relic from the past and no longer a cornerstone of global stability?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the United States did decide, through legislation in 1999, that it would in fact develop a ballistic missile defence, but it has not said what exactly that will be. It has put several options on the table. It has not determined which option or options it will actually deploy. It has said it would consult very meaningfully with Canada and with all of the different allies, plus Russia and China, and it is in the midst of doing that. We are nowhere near a decision on this matter because the United States is nowhere near a decision on this matter.

I will say one other thing. Global security, whether through the ABM treaty or any replacement thereof, is still just as vital to this country—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Halifax.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, this is what Canadian officials are saying in the media today:

There is a right way and a wrong way that you can go about doing this and we want to make sure they go about it in a right way.

This government's idea of the right way to deal with the NMD is to find a way to support it, no matter how dire the consequences, and help the Americans sell it to the world.

What will it take for the government to come to its senses and realize that the only responsible way to respond to the madness of the star wars 2—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Minister of National Defence.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

That is not correct at all, Mr. Speaker. We have made no decision on this matter. Before a decision is made we want to look at all the facts. We want to know exactly what the Americans want to do, what the cost will be and what the parameters will be. Equally important is what will they do to make sure this world is just as secure in terms of arms non-proliferation as it was before. We want to make sure that it is better.

Until those answers are clear, the government will not make a decision. Until those answers are clear, we will not ask parliament to participate in it as well. When that happens we will have full debate here in the House.

Access To Information

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the information commissioner reports that “access requests made by journalists and opposition members get slower service, closer scrutiny” to protect ministers.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister issue an order today to stop this deliberate attempt to hide the truth from journalists and parliament and therefore from the public?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not accept the premise of my hon. friend's question that there is some deliberate attempt not to respond to the act.

The report said that the government received 20,000 access requests last year. Out of some 1,300 complaints investigated by the commissioner, only two were not resolved to his satisfaction and are now before the courts. I think that is a pretty good record.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this is the commissioner's opinion, not mine.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister tell the House whether the RCMP has been in touch with the Prime Minister or with his solicitor or his representative, or any other member of his staff or of the Privy Council Office, for the purpose of discussing falsified documents originating with or involving the Business Development Bank?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I assure the hon. member and the House that the Prime Minister and his advisers are following the law to the letter.

Grants And Contributions

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Industry threw out a red herring when he said he did not have the right to look at the Prime Minister's bill of sale to make sure it was an accurate document according to the Business Corporations Act. According to the act, his director of corporations does have the authority to verify its accuracy.

Will the minister instruct his director of corporations to submit the bill of sale to an independent forensic analyst to determine its accuracy?

[John Cannis, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, let me suggest to the Alliance Party to submit its membership for an independent audit.

More to the point, it has been requested and is being looked at, and that is it.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is not it because the minister is shirking his legal obligation. His officials already went to Shawinigan. They found that the corporate records were inaccurate and they asked that they be updated. However they did not look at the bill of sale.

Part IV of the Business Corporations Act states “a corporation shall prepare and maintain adequate accounting records...for a period of six years”.

There is obvious doubt about when that bill of sale was handwritten.

Will the minister ensure the accuracy of this most important record, the Prime Minister's bill of sale?

[John Cannis, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister clearly pointed out earlier that a copy of the bill was submitted. What the member is saying is totally false.

Access To Information

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in a situation where the access to information commissioner has stated clearly in a report, for the second time in a year, that the government is in violation of the Access to Information Act. The report is very clear on this.

I am asking the Minister of Justice, whose responsibility it is to see that legislation is complied with, how she can explain her behaviour in putting herself at the service of the government without deigning to show any concern for these extremely serious accusations by the information commissioner.