Debates of Sept. 19th, 2001

Terrorism

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Either yes or no, these are two fairly simple words that Canadians understand, Mr. Speaker.

The ambassador also said that one of the things Canada must consider to ensure our safety and security is harmonizing our refugee screening standards. As the Ressam case shows, Canadian refugee standards and laws have been abused by terrorists here in Canada.

Will the Prime Minister tell Canadians, just a yes or a no, if the U.S. can count on us by knowing that we will insist on better standards for screening, detaining and deporting dangerous refugee claimants?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are working very hard on these extremely difficult problems. We are talking and working with the Americans.

I know the hon. member would like us to just make flamboyant, desperate speeches but we do not do things that way. We look at the facts. We look at what we can do and we will work with the United States.

The one thing I do want to say is that the laws of Canada will be passed by the Parliament of Canada.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister refused to commit to having parliament vote on any major military, diplomatic or financial decision that will be made in connection with the attacks in the United States. This is unfortunate, because his refusal could have the effect of weakening Canada's voice within the international coalition that is being set up.

Does the Prime Minister not realize that, in the democratic fight against terrorism now taking shape, Canada would have a much stronger voice internationally if the House of Commons had voted in favour of such measures?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, people observing the situation in Canada are well aware that there was a debate in the House of Commons Monday, during which all members had an opportunity to express their point of view, and that there was a unanimous vote of the entire House of Commons on this subject.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am talking about a commitment, when a decision of a military, diplomatic or whatever nature is taken.

I have trouble understanding the Prime Minister's refusal, when I recall that the current Deputy Prime Minister, then leader of the official opposition, said during the gulf war that, before involving Canadians in any offensive, the Liberals wanted the matter debated in parliament and put to a vote.

How is it that when the Liberals were in opposition, a vote was required on an issue such as military involvement in the gulf war, but that now all that is required are exploratory debates?

I would like to understand the Prime Minister's logic.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in the course of the past eight years, we have sent a number of missions to the former Yugoslavia and each time the House of Commons was consulted.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the coalition to combat international terrorism is taking shape.

A number of heads of state have already visited the president of the United States, and others are preparing to do so. Yesterday, the Prime Minister announced that he too will be going to Washington.

During that visit, does the Prime Minister intend to suggest that the American president involve the UN in his efforts to expand the very significant coalition against terrorism that is taking shape?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it would be very worthwhile to get the UN involved in this debate, because it does involve more than just NATO. Many other countries are involved. Moreover, a number of countries are being consulted.

I personally have spoken with some heads of government and find there is a feeling of solidarity throughout the world that I have not seen for a very long time. I hope it will be even more present within the United Nations.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Prime Minister for his reply.

In the same vein, would the Prime Minister not find it appropriate to also meet United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan in order to discuss with him the role the International Criminal Court could play, and in particular the inclusion of acts of terrorism in the definition of crimes against humanity?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as has been said in several oral question periods now, in our foreign policy we strongly support the International Criminal Court, but for the moment it does not exist.

This is not a matter that could be directed to the International Criminal Court. We will certainly continue to support ratification of the International Criminal Court by countries all around the world.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister goes to Washington next week and I know that he will convey the heartfelt condolences of all Canadians. I want to urge the Prime Minister to also convey Canadians' concern that there will be no end to the violence if the American president is intent upon pursuing wanted dead or alive, wild west justice.

Will the Prime Minister assure Canadians that he will call for some sort of international tribunal to swiftly consider all the evidence so that we can defeat the real enemy which is terrorism?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are all in agreement that we have to confront terrorism head on. It is what the Americans, the Canadians, the British, the French and everybody wants to do. It is a problem that affects all the nations of the world.

For example, this morning I had a discussion about this with the president of Egypt. On many occasions, he has had to face this terrible problem of radicals within his country trying to change the government.

We all want to fight with what is available to stop terrorism but it will not be an easy task. There are many options that need to be discussed and that is exactly what I will do on Monday with President Bush.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are desperate to get the assurance from the Prime Minister that he is not going to Washington just to get marching orders. The whole world needs Canada at this time to be a true friend of the American people.

We need our Prime Minister to use the meeting with President Bush to propose concrete international measures that can defeat international terrorism which will bring global justice and security to the people of the world. Will the Prime Minister pledge to do that?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am very proud to be a Liberal in the House today. We have the Leader of the Opposition who wants to send soldiers when there is no request at this time. We have the leader of the NDP who wants to do nothing at all to fight terrorism. The Liberal Party is taking a balanced approach to it. We have to fight terrorism. We have to be responsible all the time.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Canadians who are being asked to fight terrorism need to know the facts.

Was the King of Jordan correct when he told CNN last night that his authorities had uncovered operations in Canada by Osama bin Laden and drew that information to Canada's attention? Was the Prime Minister informed personally about this information before he told the House on Monday that he was “not aware of a cell operating in Canada with the intention of--

[The Speaker]

The right hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I understand why the leader of the fifth party did not stay very long as prime minister of the land because he should know that no responsible leader of the government would discuss in detail in the House of Commons a question on this situation in Canadian society.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that the King of Jordan on television last night uncovered this series of operations. He admitted that they were taking place in Europe, the U.S. and Canada. He immediately co-ordinated with those countries' agencies. However, this Prime Minister continues to claim that he knows nothing about terrorist cells in this country.

Canadians deserve to know what is going on in parliament without finding out about things on Larry King Live .

Will the Prime Minister tell parliament, before he tells President Bush, what he plans to do?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is well aware that our security intelligence agency in this country works in collaboration with security intelligence agencies around the world. As the Prime Minister has indicated, anything that took place at that time would have been investigated, but there were no planned attacks against Canada.

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last night on CNN, as has already been brought out, the King of Jordan revealed that his country, not our country, uncovered a series of operations in Europe, in the United States and here in Canada to be carried out by the Osama bin Laden group during the millennium celebrations.

According to King Abdullah, efforts to thwart these attempts were co-ordinated with agencies of this country.

I ask the solicitor general, why was something not done at that time to apprehend those individuals, not by Jordan but by the agencies of Canada?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

As I just indicated, Mr. Speaker, I am aware of what the King of Jordan had to say last night. He spoke about incidents leading up to the millennium.

I can assure that any links that were made to Canada were investigated. I am advised that there were no planned attacks against Canada, and that is what he was talking about.

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we are not just talking about attacks against Canada. The attacks were to be carried out against the Americans by Ressam who was coming from Canada.

The question that came from CSIS yesterday was that personnel has been diminished by 40% over the last seven years. Forty per cent of our intelligence agency deals with the safety and security of our nation.

Is our solicitor general confident that, in light of what happened in the United States, in light of the 40% reduction, we have the personnel to effectively maintain the safety and security of this country now?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, simply, the answer is yes, and the director of CSIS has indicated that quite clearly.

[Pierrette Venne, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as is the case with organized crime, terrorists need money to function. Today the British government has called on the international community to undertake joint action to cut funding to terrorists.

Does the Government of Canada intend to respond to this appeal by the British government and cut funds the terrorists could access on Canadian soil or in Canadian banks or businesses?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, let me reassure the hon. member that the government not only will take steps but has taken steps.

My colleague, the Secretary of State for International Financial Institutions, has already ensured that regulations are in place to seize and restrain any assets that are directly or indirectly involved with bin Laden and any of his associates.

We have criminal code provisions expanded by Bill C-24 that deal with seizure and forfeiture of assets in certain circumstances. We will be working with our allies to ensure that we have all the laws in place necessary to strip terrorist organizations of their lifeblood, which is their money.