Mr. Speaker, my thanks to the interpreters, without whose help I would not have been able to understand a word this member said since I am one of those very unfortunate unilingual Canadians.
I would like to address the questions which he has raised, first the question of age. That is a very good question because we are often falsely accused of wanting to treat children in the criminal system as if they were adults. That is not at all the intent of our legislation or of our policies.
The way it is now, youngsters who are 10 who commit a serious crime are simply sent back to their parents. Very often what they need is a serious intervention within our criminal system that says they will get counselling at the time, that they will go to a home for juveniles where they are taught social responsibility. All we are trying to do is to draw them into the loop for help so that they will not grow up to be true criminals after having learned more and more.
We also believe in this same context, though, that if youngsters, persons under 18, commit a serious crime such as murder, rape or major assault, they should be held accountable. I do not make apologies for that. I am not talking about 10 year olds. I am talking about those in the upper part of that range.
Second, the member asked the question about whether or not the government could act in good faith here. I really wish it would. Our legislative process would be greatly enhanced if all members of parliament were given true ability and authority in this place to represent their constituents and to represent their consciences.
For example, in committee today we had given notice of a motion to hold some ministers accountable in the present crisis. I was absolutely amazed to find that I was not permitted to make that motion. How was that done? On command, all the Liberals rose and left the committee even though it had not yet been adjourned. We lost quorum and therefore the chairman was not able to accept my motion. Those are bullying tactics.
The correct response would have been, let us let the man make his motion, debate it and let each individual there, without the coercion of party pressure, consider this, and if it is good vote for it and if not vote against it. Would our system not be improved if that happened?
The same thing should happen with this bill. I would love to see more free votes on government bills in this place. I know that there have been a number of them where members of the ruling party were not really with it, but they voted for the motion basically because of the pressure that was put on them. I am quite convinced that if we had more freedom in our respective parties to vote outside the party line we would be accepting amendments which would improve legislation.
I would also like us to actually have the capacity to defeat a bill without defeating the government because when I am voting on a bill I should be voting on the essence of what that bill is, not on whether or not there should be an election. That is a total mix-up, where we are not voting on what the issue is but on whether or not the government stands.
We absolutely need to have those reforms. We need to have that ability of a governing party, whichever it is, as right now it is the Liberals, and my answer to the question that the hon. member asked is a resounding yes. It would be very helpful. It would build good faith. It would enhance the reputation of our parliament among all of our citizens if the government would split the bill and allow us to deal with it properly. That is not being done now. We are being bullied instead of being allowed to do our work as parliamentarians.