Debates of Sept. 20th, 2001

Foreign Affairs

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, if that were true, it would be really worth getting excited about, but I am afraid that it is an exaggeration, as so many of these things are.

The truth is that we do take appropriate security precautions. We deal with the cases as they arise. Very often, as the hon. member will know, we require special action in respect of locally engaged staff to ensure that they not only understand Canadian law but that they comply with our moral and ethical standards.

I certainly reject the suggestion that somehow or other our embassies abroad are rampant with corruption. That is an outrageous allegation.

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, over 300 cases between 1993 and 1996 alone is rampant corruption at our embassies. The corruption at our embassies includes selling passports and visas. Our frontline against the entry of terrorists has been breached. The embassies involved include embassies in Kuwait, in Pakistan, in Syria.

Our perimeter security is in jeopardy and Canadians know it. Is there a minister on that side that does?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I certainly hope that the hon. member does not contemplate trying to give Canadians an apprehension that they do not need to have because what we do not need right now is needless fearmongering. There is plenty of justification for real concerns as a result of the things that happened last Tuesday.

What we saw last week requires a very serious response from all of us. These wild allegations about somebody selling a passport do absolutely nothing to create the kind of concerted effort we need to take not just in Canada but internationally against the real trouble, which is international terrorism.

Terrorism

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the question of what fate American justice has in mind for the terrorists may create an impasse.

In numerous Arab countries, the idea that Osama bin Laden, if officially charged, would be judged by the American justice system is problematic.

If Osama bin Laden's guilt were determined and an impasse occurred around his extradition to the U.S., is the minister prepared to propose to the security council that an ad hoc international criminal court be set up in order to break that impasse and expand the coalition?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I must point out to begin with that the events of Tuesday, September 11, are a crime that was committed in the United States.

I do not believe that the United States will accept the idea that someone responsible for such a crime would be brought before a court that was not located in the United States.

At any rate, we are certainly in favour of continuing our efforts in support of the treaty of Rome, which would create an international criminal court.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am returning to this question because the minister is, of course, right that the event occurred in the United States but the necessity for a coalition, the broadest one possible, and the fact that nationals of ten or more countries were killed, might make this a major issue.

I therefore ask him: Is he seeking a solution along these lines, one that would make it possible to broaden the coalition?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, if we can find a way of satisfying not only the government of the United States, where the crime was committed, but also the victims' families, in that justice would be pursued before some other court, this might meet our objective in this case.

In any case, I would say the support of all the other members and the allies would be necessary, as well as the United States, which--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Lakeland.

National Defence

[Leon Benoit, Canadian Alliance, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of National Defence admitted that we have lost over half of our experienced pilots from Kosovo, so we know we are short of experienced pilots. After the attack on September 11, NORAD scrambled U.S. fighters and our F-18s here at home. We are talking about protecting Canadians in our country.

Did Canada meet our NORAD commitments in sending the required contingent of F-18s fully loaded with sidewinder and sparrow missiles?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, first, at the time of the Kosovo air campaign we had some 40 pilots. Today we have more than that available for any possible commitments.

Second, we did make additional planes available to NORAD at the time of the September 11 incident at the request of the United States. They thanked us for that. I am not going to talk about what weaponry they may or may not have had on board.

[Leon Benoit, Canadian Alliance, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I can understand why the minister does not want to talk about that.

Defence experts have warned that Canada's armed forces are so depleted that there is not a lot Canada can do to contribute to strikes against terrorist states. The government promised in the white paper to commit two squadrons of F-18s and at the same time meet our NORAD commitments.

Can the minister stand here today and legitimately say that he can meet both our NATO and NORAD commitments?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the United States decided to take a bipartisan approach. Here the Alliance wants to play cheap politics with this terrible disaster. I think that is disgusting.

Let me say that we will meet all of our commitments in the white paper.

Health

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. There is great concern across Canada about maintaining the number of physicians across the country.

What is the government doing to meet the human resources challenges facing our health care sector?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is quite right. Canadians are concerned about the supply and the deployment of physicians across the country. That is why we were glad earlier today to be joined by representatives of the medical profession to launch a human resources sector study that will help physicians in Canada plan for the health care workforce of the future.

This study will ensure that physicians can better anticipate changes in their role and in their skill requirements, while at the same time study the issue of the shortage of doctors.

I would like to thank the Canadian Medical Forum, an organization of over 60,000 physicians, for its leadership in this regard and will look forward to their--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary West.

National Defence

[Rob Anders, Canadian Alliance, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as far as bipartisanship goes, in the United States the opposition is actually invited inside the White House.

Canadian fighter planes are normally stationed at Bagotville and Cold Lake. Did the Minister of National Defence, as part of his heightened state of alert, station Canadian fighter planes in Toronto? In plain terms, could the minister assure Canadians that on September 11 he even considered measures to stop a jumbo jet from crashing into the CN Tower?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Air Force is part of the NORAD system along with the United States. It has the responsibility, the assets and the personnel that are required to protect the air space of North America.

I am not going to talk about specific deployments. That is not the kind of thing that is in the national interest to talk about. However those kinds of matters are under constant review to make sure that we continue to ensure the safety and security of Canadians and all the people of this continent within the NORAD framework.

[Rob Anders, Canadian Alliance, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this is interesting. On one hand, we have the Prime Minister proudly declaring how Canada will set its own immigration, refugee and deportation rules without the input of the Americans. On the other hand, we have our defence minister telling us that many Canadian cities are only protected by the good grace of our American allies.

The defence minister is contradicting the Prime Minister, saying in this case that we are relying on the Americans. Which one is wrong?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is clearly wrong. He does not seem to know that we have a sharing agreement with the United States on the protection of North American air defence called NORAD. We have had it since the 1950s. We share in the assets and the personnel. We will continue to do that to protect the air space of all the people of North America.

Refugees

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the situation that has been confronting us since September 11 is a source of concern for each and everyone of us. However, for thousands of refugee claimants, the uncertainty is reaching extremely high levels.

Since the decision-making process takes place over a period of several years, thus promoting clandestinity with all the social and safety consequences that it may trigger, how does the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration intend to deal with the requests of the Quebec minister of public relations and immigration, who demands, and rightly so, that we clean up the mess in the refugee determination process?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, as the member knows, Canadians are very proud of our response to people who are fleeing persecution. We will continue to honour those humanitarian commitments.

In Bill C-11 we are streamlining the refugee determination procedures because we all recognize that it takes too long. I also want to assure all members of the House that whenever we have evidence that someone poses a national security risk we have the powers to detain and argue for continued detention, and we do that.

In the new Bill C-11 we will also have the ability to deny access to the refugee determination system for those who are inadmissible to Canada. For those who need our protection, we will continue to do that.

The Economy

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, according to reports, cabinet is reassessing the need for a fall budget. Ministers, according to the same reports, are discussing economic stimulus measures that could put the country back into deficit.

In June the finance minister said that he would introduce a fall budget if the economy worsened. Clearly the Minister of Finance recognizes that the economy is worsening. Will the minister commit today to presenting a fall budget?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said on a number of occasions, all options are open. The fact is that before one comes down with a budget, one has to have a fairly good grasp of where the economy is going.

We have seen that we are in a period of considerable uncertainty. At the same time, given the costs of augmenting our national security, which is our number one priority, and the joining together with the United States and other countries in a major international effort against terrorism, it would be premature for us to contemplate when a budget would be brought in.

However, I can assure the hon. member that a full and comprehensive statement will be provided in the month of October as to where our spending, our debt retirement and our tax plans fit into the projections.

Business of the House

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, will the government House leader advise the House on the business for the rest of the week and the business for next week?

It is only a matter of a few weeks before the national sex offender registry legislation should be tabled. Will he advise the House if that will happen.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, this afternoon we will continue debate on Bill C-15, the criminal code amendments. Time permitting, I would like to start with Bill C-6, the water export bill. If there is agreement, which I intend to seek very shortly, a take note debate would follow after 8.30 p.m., pursuant to requests made in the House by some hon. members, on the Prime Minister's forthcoming visit to the United States of America to meet the president.

On Friday, we will commence second reading of Bill S-23, the Customs Act, and if necessary, Bill C-6, the water bill.

On Monday, we will deal with Bill C-30, the courts administration bill, followed by second reading of Bill C-27, regarding nuclear waste.

Next Tuesday shall be an allotted day, in the name of the Bloc Quebecois.

Next Wednesday we will deal with the Nunavut water and surface rights bills which was introduced earlier this day.

As I mentioned earlier, I draw to the attention of House that there were some consultations earlier today. Given these consultations, I will propose a motion now to the House. However, for the benefit of House leaders, it will be slightly amended because I will have to remove some words in order to seek what I believe is the common ground. If the House leaders have the text of the motion, I will start in the second sentence, not the first. I move:

That, at 8.30 p.m. this day, the House shall continue to sit and shall resolve itself into a committee of the whole to consider a motion “That the committee take note of the planned meeting between the Prime Minister and the President of the United States” provided that, during consideration thereof: (1) the Speaker may from time to time act as Chair of the committee; (2) the Chair of the committee shall not receive any quorum call or any motion except the motion “That the committee do now rise”; (3) when no Member rises to speak, or at 12 a.m., whichever is earlier, the committee shall rise; and (4) when the committee rises the House shall immediately adjourn to the next sitting day.