Mr. Speaker, I thank the House for the opportunity to participate in this important debate. The hon. member for Charlesbourg--Jacques-Cartier has stated that while it does provide some difficulties for us all, there are those of us who consider parliament to be a very significant institution in our country where important matters of state get debated and voted on.
However I must take some distance from my colleague. I would like to outline why the motion is premature, hypothetical and absent of facts. The motion states:
That this House urge the government, in any reprisals taken in reaction to the terrorist strikes in New York City on September 11, not to commit Canadian armed forces in any offensive action until the House of Commons has been consulted and has voted on the matter.
This is a hypothetical motion. At this point in time we have not been asked to participate in any action whatsoever. Any hypothetical request is always a dangerous position to be in, particularly if ultimately we as a government have to make a decision.
There is also an absence of facts. Is there anyone in the Chamber who has a full grasp of the facts? I read media accounts, as do other members. I do not regard media accounts as facts. I have not been privy to any CSIS briefing or any military briefing which would enlighten me. Therefore I am in a similar position to all other members in the Chamber that I am not in possession of the facts.
Two weeks have passed since the crisis and there is a propensity to jump to conclusions. One of the conclusions is that Canada is a terrorist haven. The facts seem to be somewhat different, in that virtually all the terrorist activities to date originated in the United States. Nevertheless that seems to be a fixed conclusion by many members of the media.
Another fixed conclusion is that our refugee laws are lax. I witnessed a lawyer on television the other night who has several clients in jail on refugee related issues. He was expressing a great deal of frustration about having his clients in jail on what he considered an absence of clear and hard evidence of why they should be kept in jail. That did not seem to make much of a dent in the forgone conclusion that our refugee laws are lax.
We have been asked to engage in an armed response to this initiative. I ask hypothetically whether the armed response would also include intelligence gathering. Is intelligence gathering part of the armed forces response or is it not part of the armed forces response? Are we being asked to comment on that?
If we are being asked to comment on that, do we need a parliamentary resolution every time CSIS decides to engage in clandestine intelligence gathering activities both within our borders and outside our borders and in turn to share that material with other agencies?
We have seen a number of conclusions that our legislation is inadequate. Indeed there are gaps within our legislation which I believe the Minister of Justice will be addressing. We have been urged to adopt legislation similar to that of Great Britain and the United States. They are pieces of legislation that some might argue are quite draconian and made no difference on September 11.
Parliament is being urged to have a vote on this matter. As I said, I find the motion somewhat premature. We do not have a great deal of facts with which to work, and it is a hypothetical motion.
I would like to point out that parliament has not voted directly on any wartime resolution since World War II. We did not vote on resolutions regarding Korea. Resolutions regarding the gulf war had to do with resolutions of the United Nations rather than voting to go to war.
Parliament has many ways in which it can guide government. Take note debates are one of those ways. I heard hon. members opposite diminish the value of take note debates but I do not take that view. Take note debates are extremely important and give parliamentarians some opportunity to suggest to government various ways to think about specific issues.
We also have the opportunity to engage in debate on days like today where opposition parties get to set the agenda for the day.
There is of course scrutiny on a variety of committees and members get opportunities to make their voices heard before government.
Ultimately, there is the confidence vote to which every government is subject. If parliamentarians are absolutely convinced that the government is going in the wrong direction, then presumably they can move confidence in the government.
The last debate similar to this was on the Kosovo issue. The then leader of the Reform Party made six conditions for the deployment of troops, and they were somewhat instructive.
The first condition was that parliamentarians should be satisfied that there was a serious international threat and that diplomatic efforts to resolve it had failed. I would not argue that there is a serious international threat. I am not convinced, however, that diplomatic efforts are exhausted, although they do seem to be very close to being exhausted.
The second condition was that parliament should be satisfied that as far as possible there was multinational support for military action. Again, that condition, frankly, seems to be met, that there is international support for action, particularly in the NATO countries.
The third condition was that the government should be satisfied that there was a workable plan and strategy for military action. At this point in time, I do not believe that there is a workable plan and strategy for military action, so that in fact would not meet the condition.
The fourth condition was that parliament must be satisfied that any plan for military action was a well defined mission and was a clear definition of Canada's role. Without a workable plan and strategy, I do not see how we have a well defined mission or a clear definition of our role.
The fifth condition was that parliament must be satisfied that the role expected was within our fiscal and military capabilities. The question is: “What is being expected of us?”
The sixth condition was that parliament must be assured the command and control structure was satisfactory to Canada.
Basically conditions three through six have not been met in my mind. I go back to the original point that the motion is hypothetical and premature, and we clearly do not have a lot of facts. The greater likelihood is that this action will be far more clandestine and will be based on intelligence rather than overwhelming military might.
Certain members of the House, particularly the Privy Council will be briefed and some members of the Privy Council will be more briefed than others. Necessarily there will be a closing of the circle because we do not want to broadcast any activities that we might be engaged in.
I am sure that hon. members opposite, and indeed members in all parts of the House, would not want to be advertising what actions Canada would take.
We also have the issue of the unintended consequences of signalling a differentiation in resolve. If we take this vote now and the actions do not start for a month, two months or three months or if the actions go in a direction different from what we initially thought we were voting on, we may find ourselves in a very difficult and awkward position.
Finally, the issue is: Will this vote be binding on the government and, if so, how is it binding on the government?
My position on this motion is clearly that it is hypothetical, premature and that there is an absence of facts. I forgot to mention that I am splitting my time.