Debates of Sept. 27th, 2001

The Economy

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The Chair must be able to hear all questions and answers. I would call for a little order, please.

Export Development Corporation

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the government will be aware of allegations about a Canadian company's involvement in sordid and shocking atrocities in Tanzania. The allegations are deadly serious: miners driven from their homes, miners buried alive. Through the Export Development Corporation the Canadian government provided risk insurance to this Canadian company.

Will the government today call an independent investigation into these horrifying allegations?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the Tanzanian police, the World Bank and Amnesty International, all three have solely investigated these allegations in the past. They have found no substantiation.

As a matter of fact, recently the World Bank announced that it will be sending an investigative team to Tanzania to look into any new developments. The Government of Canada continues to monitor the situation closely and will assess the information gathered by the World Bank investigation.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians want to know about the Canadian government's role in this. As early as 1996 these human rights abuses and atrocities in Tanzania were known. It is not credible that the EDC did not know about these three years later when it decided to provide support to the company.

Will the government assure the House that it will get to the bottom of the story and specifically determine the Export Development Corporation's involvement?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, here again there has been an investigation by the World Bank and Amnesty International. They have looked into it and they have found no substantiation to it. When EDC got involved, it alongside with the World Bank only granted some political risk insurance in this particular case. I think it is very important to look into the facts on this one.

Terrorism

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the acting Prime Minister or the Minister of Finance if they happen not to be the same person. They follow from statements on terrorist funding made by the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance.

Are there terrorists or terrorist activities in Canada related directly or indirectly to Osama bin Laden? Do any persons or groups related to Osama bin Laden have assets here? Have those assets been frozen?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the list of 27 that was presented by President Bush has been transmitted to the banks. If any such assets exist, they have been frozen. As to the other questions, the member will have to ask either the RCMP or the banks themselves.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am a parliamentarian. I ask questions in the House of Commons and the House of Commons has a right to some responses from the government on issues that touch the public interest.

The authority to freeze assets owned or controlled by bin Laden or his associates is set out in the UN-Afghanistan resolutions. Those resolutions were gazetted in Canada on March 14. That gave Canada authority to act six months before the attacks.

What concrete actions did the Prime Minister take to ensure that those assets had been frozen and when did he take that action?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered that question. The action was taken immediately forthwith upon the president presenting the list and us receiving that particular information.

As far as the quality of the answer, the fact is that I am not in a position to stand here and give detailed information on bank accounts. That is a matter between the RCMP and the banks.

[Vic Toews, Canadian Alliance, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance said they waited until the tragedy. Although the United Nations has required action against bin Laden's assets for almost a year, Canada has failed to take any steps to seize his assets. The reason is clear. A finance department official has advised that Canada lacks the appropriate legislation to seize the assets.

Why did the government fail to enact legislation over this past seven months authorizing the seizure of these assets?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the legislation provides for the freezing of those assets and that has been done.

[Vic Toews, Canadian Alliance, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing about seizing it. Finance department officials are now admitting that they have no record of any of bin Laden's accounts being identified.

Not only has the government failed to enact the appropriate legislation, it has no reporting system in place. How can our allies rely on Canada when the government does not even have simple reporting procedures in place?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice]

Mr. Speaker, I want to refer to the hon. member's allegation that there are no laws in place that would permit seizure of assets. I refer the hon. member to subsection 3(2) of the United Nations Act which provides for civil forfeiture action against assets that are covered by the regulations, bin Laden's and his associates' assets.

The Economy

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the beginning of the crisis, the Prime Minister has acted without resorting to partisanship, rising to the debate, which clearly the Minister of Finance seems incapable of doing. When it gets to the point where the Bloc Quebecois and the PQ are held responsible for the crisis, we know there is a problem.

I ask the minister to be serious, to show that he is worthy of the job and to tell us that a year ago it was impossible to foresee the current situation. He himself did not anticipate this in his forecast. The situation has changed.

Is it not time to act, to tell the public this is what we have to do now?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, if the member had read the Governor of the Bank of Canada's statement, if he had read the statements by Mr. Greenspan and by all those who are truly responsible for monetary policy, he would have seen that Canada's philosophy or policy of keeping interest rates down is critical.

It is the best thing we can do to help the economy, which depends entirely upon the financial integrity of the country. For this reason, we will continue following our plan, because that is what has given us the financial integrity that we need.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance's smugness is not appropriate to the debate.

Yes, we read the statements; yes, we read the analyses.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

And we understand them.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

But he should also read the papers and find out what is currently happening in the United States. Perhaps he should also read this morning's Le Devoir, rise above petty politics and say that it was impossible to predict what has happened.

We need more: a mini budget or measures designed for all Canadians. This is not about federal-provincial squabbling; this is an urgent situation which requires that all levels of government continue to fight the deficit, of course, but it also requires that they act. Will he act?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we are dealing with a global downturn in the United States, France, Japan, and in Canada. We acted before the United States, Europe and certainly before the other countries involved.

That is why our tax cuts are so important. That is why lower interest rates are so important.

If we look at the sectors where other countries are taking action, such as in transportation, we have acted, and we intend to continue to act, while my colleague wrings his hands.

Airline Industry

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Minister of Transport sent a chilling message to Canadian taxpayers when he said that a bailout of Air Canada would “not be cheap”.

Will the minister assure the House and Canadian taxpayers that any compensation given to Air Canada and other airlines will cover only provable losses directly associated with the shutdown of airlines during the week of September 11?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, when the question was asked of me in a scrum outside the House, it was in the context of assistance to the airline industry. I have always been very specific that whatever we do will be done in a global context for the entire industry.

I said that any assistance will not come cheap. It will be expensive. Currently these matters are under review and I hope to be able to say something soon.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I take that as a no, Mr. Speaker.

My next question is for the Minister of Finance. Canadians are increasingly puzzled about the priorities of the government. Since the crisis of September 11, we have not heard a commitment for a single dollar in additional resources for National Defence, for the RCMP, for CSIS or for border control. Now the government is talking about $2 billion more than we spend on CSIS and the RCMP combined as a bailout for a large government regulated, near monopoly corporation.

How can the government rationalize this misplaced priority?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the premise of the hon. member's question is wrong. He is looking at published reports, speculative reports, requests by Air Canada for a certain level of assistance. Certainly whatever assistance will be given will not be cheap, but to make the assertion that he just made is completely unwarranted.

Employment Insurance

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Finance said in the House and I quote “The government will do everything to help those who have lost their job”.

Considering that surpluses in the employment insurance fund now stand at $38.4 billion, will the minister seize this opportunity to give back to the unemployed what he has taken from them, by following up on the unanimous recommendations of the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development, which have been available since May and which propose more flexible rules regarding the employment insurance program?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the employment insurance program is there to help Canadians when they need it. Unfortunately for some workers in certain sectors that time is now. I want to assure the hon. member that we have mass layoff provisions so we can process employment insurance claims quickly, so workers who need income support can get it.

We transfer well over half a billion dollars to the government of Quebec every year so it can assist employees move from one employer to another. We also have agreements with that government to support older workers. Perhaps the time is now to expand those pilots.

The employment insurance system is sound and it is there for Canadians now.