House of Commons Hansard #88 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was agreements.

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Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

1:45 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Scott Reid Canadian Alliance Lanark—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, Bill S-8 would set aside two days, January 8 and November 20, as national memorial days, but not actually statutory holidays, in honour of arguably the two greatest prime ministers of this country, Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir Wilfrid Laurier.

In making these two days memorial or remembrance days we are giving them a status similar to the status given to Remembrance Day, November 11, for example, as opposed to Canada Day, which is of course a day on which work ought not to be performed. There is a distinction there that I think is important.

This bill is significant for its symbolic value and for what it says about what we think about these two figures and therefore what we think about ourselves. It is a sense of our own picture of our history. In our view of our own history, in our national mythology, we are in fact building our image of ourselves and our attitudes towards the world.

This is a question of particular interest to me. In my private life I am a Ph.D. candidate in history at Carleton University, working on a doctoral dissertation on evolving Canadian attitudes toward the monarchy. I see some parallels in the studies I have done on evolving Canadian attitudes toward the monarchy and the kinds of evolving attitudes we have had over time toward our historical figures, including of course the great Sir John A. and the great Sir Wilfrid.

Just to draw out the analogy a bit, the monarchy in the eyes of a man like Maurice Duplessis, and in his words at the time of the world visit of 1939, was dramatically different from the status of the monarchy in the eyes of the Quebec nationalists who greeted Queen Elizabeth when she visited Montreal about 30 years later in 1964. This was because the perceptions of the world had changed. The symbolic value that was given to the monarchy and to the visiting monarch had changed over that period of time.

The same thing of course can be said of our views toward Sir John A. and Sir Wilfrid Laurier. Keeping this thought in mind, the most striking thing to be said is the very fact that we have never previously set aside the birthdates of either of these two men as national memorial days. That in itself says a great deal about our attitudes, not only toward them but toward ourselves and our own history.

I think there are probably two reasons why this is the case. First, until recently Sir John A. and Sir Wilfrid to some degree were seen as partisan figures, in much the same way that in the decades following their deaths Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson were seen respectively as being a northern republican and a symbol of division rather than of unity, and a southern agrarian democrat and perhaps also a symbol of division rather than unity. Later on as the partisan considerations faded, their overarching greatness was recognized and they were properly memorialized and honoured. Of course in the case of Jefferson, no holiday has been set aside for his birthday but there is a beautiful monument in Washington, and of course everybody knows about the Lincoln monument. I think there is still a little bit of this element with Sir John A. and Sir Wilfrid. Of course they died much more recently than either Lincoln or Jefferson.

A predecessor bill to this one, honouring only Sir John A., was introduced in the last parliament by my hon. colleague from Calgary Southeast . There was some discussion at the time as to whether it was appropriate to honour a representative of the Conservative stream in Canada without similarly honouring a representative of the Liberal stream. I would suggest that this is perhaps an indication that we have not yet matured in our views toward these two men. I would suggest that while it is entirely appropriate to honour Sir Wilfrid, and I am glad that he is being honoured here, it is appropriate not because he was a Liberal and Sir John A. was a Conservative. It is appropriate because they were both men of extraordinary vision.

The second reason that I think we failed in the past to honour these two men is that for decades we saw ourselves, our Canadian identity, as being subservient to another identity. It seems pretty clear that we saw ourselves as being primarily British for at least the first half century of Canada's history as a confederated country.

The great holiday of the 1920s and 1930s that went on and did not vanish in Ontario until the 1960s was Empire Day, later Commonwealth Day. That was a celebration of our perceived Britishness. That of course has diminished over time. As the diminution of that particular identity has taken place, it has seemed more appropriate to honour clearly and primarily Canadian figures.

As we memorialize and mythologize these men, it seems to me it is appropriate that we recognize them not only for the way in which they governed us during their lifetimes, and if one gets into the details of how they governed us, of course they governed in this place, with its adversarial politics and its partisanship, with a fair bit of what could be called sausage making. As one tries to produce laws, there is a bit that is perhaps not all that attractive. I do not think we are memorializing them for that. I think we are memorializing them for some over-arching values they represent.

I suggest that there are five overarching values which each of these two men represent and which we ought to make reference to as we proceed to honour them.

First, both men were clearly reconcilers of competing interests, competing ideologies and competing regions. This is evident in the fact that both men were able to cobble together out of the extraordinarily diverse Canadian political landscape two remarkably effective and long-lasting coalitions. Sir John A. Macdonald was able to govern for 19 years and Sir Wilfrid Laurier from 1896 to 1911 in an unbroken streak that has never been matched.

They were able to obtain representation from all regions of the country. They were able to represent the two great competing religious bases that at the time represented a great division within Canadian politics, to represent both linguistic groups in the country, to represent both longstanding Canadian interests and more recent arrivals to Canada. They were extraordinarily effective in that. That clearly is a primary value in the politics of a diverse country like Canada.

Second, we should honour them as parliamentarians and for their profound respect for this institution.

Of course Sir John A. Macdonald was eminent in actually creating this institution in its present form out of its predecessor, the parliament of the province of Canada. Sir Wilfrid Laurier was known for, among other things, his encyclopaedic knowledge of parliamentary rules of procedure and precedent and for his ability to converse fluently in these matters in both languages.

Third, we should recognize them as constitutionalists.

Sir John A. Macdonald's greatest accomplishment perhaps was that he was able to create for the first time anywhere in the world a constitution that combined the unwritten constitutional foundation of the British system and the written constitutionalism, and indeed federation, of the American model. This is a model that has been achieved with remarkable success in Canada and later on was emulated in Australia. It is indeed an absolutely extraordinary accomplishment that should make all of us very proud or at least very grateful to him.

Fourth, we should honour them as federalists.

It is interesting to note that in 1867, Sir John A. Macdonald really in his heart of hearts would have favoured what was referred to in those days as a legislative union, which meant of course a unitary state. At that time, Sir Wilfrid Laurier, who was of course a young man in private life, was actually a separatist. He would have liked to have taken Quebec out of Canada and worked on some new deal. He spoke quite strongly against the new arrangement in his newspaper at the time.

But through the union of the centripetal forces personified in Sir John A. Macdonald and the centrifugal decentralist forces personified in Sir Wilfrid Laurier, we have in fact achieved a model of federalism which, despite perhaps some maladministration in the intervening century, has functioned remarkably well. It has remained generally and genuinely federal to a greater extent than many other federations, indeed most other nominal federations around the world.

Fifth and last, I think we should honour both these men as extraordinary visionaries.

Of course the vision of Sir John A. was confederation itself. Sir Wilfrid Laurier is known best of all for his comment that the 20th century would belong to Canada, perhaps not in the sense that Canada would be the dominant world power, but in the sense that Canada would provide an extraordinary vision which so many other countries around the world could emulate.

In conclusion, I do very much support the bill. I hope other parliamentarians will do the same.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is easy to see what would motivate people to put forward a bill like Bill S-14 to honour two great leaders of our country. I understand what motivated them. I understand why they are doing it, but I do not agree that it is good idea for the same reasons expressed by my colleague from Laval Centre who really begged the question, where does it end?

If we do allocate a memorial day for those two prime ministers, what prime minister would not want a day dedicated to him or her? It would open a can of worms; it would open the door to an area where we do not want to go.

I understand why Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir Wilfrid Laurier were singled out. We should take special measures to honour and respect the enormous contributions that these two leaders have made to our country. There is an irony here as well. As we see the Liberal government honour Sir A. Macdonald for the great things that he did in cobbling together a federation, a very bold move, we see this particular Liberal government taking deliberate steps to dismantle the whole idea of a strong central government.

The very vision of Sir John A. Macdonald which we seek to recognize, the Liberals are taking active steps to dismantle, that very same strong central confederation. It is worth noting what an achievement it was to pull together a confederation and to make the conscious choice to form a federation rather than a single state.

Federations are the hardest form of government in the world to keep together. Of all the world's countries, I believe less than 20 are federations for that very reason. It is very difficult to pacify all the competing interests and the regionalism that goes together. Of those 20 federations in the world, India is the most populous. The United States is probably the most powerful and wealthiest. Even the United States only lasted 75 years before bursting into a bloody civil war.

Of those 20 federal states in the world, three in recent times have either disappeared or are at risk. I refer to the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, and Canada which is just hanging on by a thread. It is a very tenuous form of government. It is very difficult to keep a federation together. Sir John A. Macdonald to his credit pulled it together. It is a bit ironic to see the government, or individual members of the Liberal government, promoting a day to honour the founder of confederation when they themselves are actively taking steps to weaken the whole concept of a strong central state through the devolution of power to the provinces and a diminishing role for the federal government.

We should recognize Sir Wilfrid Laurier. Again, I do not believe in a memorial day but we should recognize the enormous contribution that he made to basic democracy. He is the man who gave us the secret ballot vote. That is significant. Something we take for granted as always being there was not always there until someone like Sir Wilfrid Laurier came along and said that in the interests of fairness, in the interests of true democracy, this is the way we are going to do things.

I refer to the public schools act. With true vision Sir Wilfrid Laurier and his government decided that school should be free of charge until grade 12, and that financial status should not be a barrier because that is what people need to take part in the workforce today.

Again, it is ironic to see the government seeking to honour the founder of the public school system with a memorial day when it itself is taking active steps to preclude the participation in post-secondary education. If anything, if the government wanted to dedicate a couple of hours of debate in the House of Commons, we should be debating the concept of extending the public schools act to include the first university degree. There should be free tuition for the first university degree. That would be worthy of debate in the House instead of a token gesture to memorialize Sir Wilfrid Laurier by a memorial day.

Another of Sir Wilfrid Laurier's achievements we should make note of is immigration, building the west. The member who spoke previously mentioned Sir Wilfrid Laurier was in government from 1896 to 1911, 15 years uninterrupted.

During that period of time Manitoba grew about by 300%. In my home province of Manitoba there were waves of immigration. It took real foresight and real vision to open our borders and invite the world to come and help us build a great nation. That took real, inspired vision. I recognize that and I have a great deal of respect for it.

As I am outlining these things, more come to mind. There is another irony associated with this in that one of the greatest achievements of Sir John A. Macdonald was building the national railway. The single greatest achievement of that century, perhaps, in terms of building this nation was our national railway, the great dream. Here we have members of the Liberal government opposite proposing to honour Sir John A. Macdonald, the architect of that dream, when they themselves are again taking active steps to dismantle the national dream of a continuous rail line from east to west. For years we have been criticizing the dismantling of our rail system. For all the environmental reasons and economic reasons we should be encouraging rail transportation in this country, accentuating it and adding to it, not tearing up the tracks.

We cannot help but comment on the irony associated with that. The Liberals seek to honour the memory of Sir John A. Macdonald with a memorial day when the very things that Sir John A. Macdonald dedicated his life to building in this country they themselves are dismantling piece by piece.

I cannot support the bill. I know it is a private member's bill and so my party members will be voting their own conscience. I am not speaking for my caucus, but I myself support the remarks from the member for Laval Centre, that we do not think it is appropriate to start dedicating memorial days to the memory of prime ministers, no matter how great their contribution to building this country. I will not be supporting Bill S-14.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased on behalf of the coalition, on behalf of the Progressive Conservative Party, to rise in support of this initiative, private member's bill, Bill S-14, which I think is significant as well as timely and is one that I almost feel very humbled by when speaking of these two individuals in the political context.

Mr. Speaker, as you would know, this bill came from the other place. I want to congratulate and commend the hon. senators, particularly John Lynch-Staunton of the other place for bringing this matter forward, as well as the hon. member for Don Valley West for his sponsorship here in the House of Commons.

It is a worthwhile initiative. In the spirit that it encompasses these two great men it has a bipartisan element to it and it honours two men who played a huge, fundamental role in founding our country. How fitting, how national, how correct and how positively politically correct that we should bring forward a bill in the names of Laurier and Macdonald, and how necessary at a time when our nation is casting its eyes inward and looking for symbols of identity and the symbols with which we define ourselves in troubled times.

My colleagues and I are extremely supportive and we are extremely pleased to see that the bill has made it to this point.

We already know that Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir Wilfrid Laurier have very much galvanized their place in history, their figures cast in bronze around these historic buildings. Yet I feel that this initiative would very much allow us to set aside two days of recognition, two days on which all Canadians could pause and reflect upon the contributions of these men in a truly Canadian way. This is an important recognition of men who displayed great vision, political passion and perseverance at a time when our nation was in its infancy.

At a time when some people suspect that Canadians have become isolated and have turned away from their history, I believe this bill may help Canadians to rediscover the origins of this great country, as well as the two men who helped to shape Canada into the country we know today.

Through Bill S-14 we are not honouring a Tory or a Liberal. This is not about partisanship, which so often takes precedence in this place. We are simply honouring two great Canadians who represent the two dominant languages, cultures and religions of their day. One was a founding father and the other was an equal contributor as the first francophone to lead the country.

Bill S-14 does not call for a national holiday, only to recognize their two birthdays.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Order, please. I hesitate to interrupt the member but other members are reporting to the Chair that the translation is not being received. Is it now being received?

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yes.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:05 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the Bloc member does not understand French from Nova Scotia. I am sorry, but I tried.

As I was saying, Bill S-14 does not just set aside time for a national holiday. This is not about expanding time off for schools or businesses. This is very much about recognizing in a formal way the birthdays of two great Canadians, Sir John. A. Macdonald and Sir Wilfrid Laurier, the birthdate being January 11 in the case of Sir John A. Macdonald.

As an interesting footnote, the birth records of Sir John A. Macdonald, who was born in Scotland, indicate that he was born on January 10. When he and his family emigrated to Canada his father, Hugh, recorded his birthdate as January 11, so there was some dispute. On the other hand, I suppose the record keepers are more precise in the province of Quebec and they indicate quite clearly that November 20 was the day on which Sir Wilfrid Laurier came into the world naked and screaming and, from that point on, went on to become one the country's leading francophone politicians.

This bill to honour Sir John A. Macdonald and Sir Wilfrid Laurier arguably sets aside time to reflect on two of Canada's most important politicians and certainly prime ministers. Sir John A. Macdonald was obviously the prime minister during Confederation. In 1867 he led the country into a new federal state. Though he was defeated in 1873, he was re-elected four times subsequent to that: in 1878, 1882, 1887 and again in 1891. He was elected five times as prime minister of the country. He died in office in June 1891. More than any single individual in our entire country's history, we have to give him credit for bringing this great nation together. His efforts and leadership created the country, gave birth to a nation. One cannot emphasize enough the magnitude and the majesty of that accomplishment.

What accomplishment can compare in any way to what Sir John A. really did? It was a tremendous act of will to bring together this vast, diverse and enormous land. He united the country not only through his political efforts but arguably he united the country physically, through the construction of the railway, and philosophically, by having like-minded people pull in the same direction. Through his long range vision, foresight, perseverance and certainly unquestionable inner fortitude, Sir John A. is very worthy of the bill that is before us.

His professional life included his time as a lawyer and a businessman. He worked in a bank and entered politics as an alderman for Kingston, Ontario. He died, as I mentioned, on June 6, 1891, while still in office and is buried in the Cataraqui cemetery near Kingston, Ontario.

His party, quite apropos and relevant in today's political environment, was one of the liberal Conservatives. One can imagine how incongruous. In the current context, it was a coalition that he led. He was the party leader from 1867 to 1891 and was able to bring together like-minded Conservatives with a social conscience.

He represented the constituencies of Kingston and Victoria, British Columbia. Many Canadians are probably not aware that Sir John A. represented the constituency of Victoria from 1878 to 1882 and then returned to Ontario between 1882 and 1887 to represent Carleton, Ontario. His ministries included receiver general, militia affairs, justice, attorney general for Canada, minister of the interior, superintendent general of Indian affairs, railways and canals. He obviously had a diverse interest that he brought to public life.

I want to touch for a moment on Sir Wilfrid Laurier and his accomplishments. He was the seventh prime minister of the country serving from 1896 to 1911. He was the first elected French Canadian prime minister. He drafted John Abbott, who became the first prime minister from Quebec, into the job. When he left after one year, Mr. Laurier, who was seen by many as a young radical, and by some standards today may have been called a separatist, came into an age of wisdom and became the first elected prime minister from Quebec.

He was key to promoting national unity from that moment onward, and like Sir John A., came from a professional life of the practice of law. He was called to the bar in eastern Canada in 1864. He was the editor of a paper and an ensign in the Arthabaskaville Infantry. He served as an MLA in the provincial legislature of Quebec. He died in February of 1919 in Ottawa and was buried at the Notre Dame Cemetery.

His political record, like Sir John A.'s, is stellar and is one that displays an incredible ability and degree of leadership. Although Macdonald was a Conservative and Laurier a Liberal and they were opponents in and out of the House, they had a common belief in a strong and united country where everyone, regardless of religion, race or language lived and worked for the benefit of one nation.

Throughout our remarks we have avoided the degree of partisanship that sometimes slips in. It is an effort for us to ban together to present a bill that would benefit Canadians in the sense that they could recognize, in an official way, the history and the cohesiveness that these two men represent to us. I encourage all members to support this important initiative.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

It being 2.15 p.m., the time provided for this debate has now expired.

Is the House ready for the question?

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the yeas have it.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

On division.

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I declare the motion carried.

(Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

Sir John A. Macdonald Day and Sir Wilfrid Laurier Day ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

It being 2.16 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Monday next at 11 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24.

(The House adjourned at 2.16 p.m.)