Mr. Speaker, the hon. member talks about the benefits that will accrue to individuals by comparison to the number of dollars they have put in. He mentioned that some individuals have received $8 out for every $1 they have put in. I actually think that is not quite correct. I think that even for the people who put in for the shortest amount of time prior to receiving it the number was somewhat closer, unless they experienced extreme longevity. It is not like that is a bad thing. It is just atypical for someone to have contributed for a very short period of time and then to receive for a very long period of time.
However he is correct when he says that the rate of benefits as compared to the amount of money put in will be substantially less for coming generations. That can scarcely be overemphasized. For people born after a certain point of time, and I cannot remember the exact year but I think the dividing line is some time in the 1970s or early 1980s, they can expect to receive less from the Canada pension plan than they will have put in during their lifetimes.
What is important about this is that it did not have to be the case. If the Canada pension plan had been designed to produce a better rate of return than the lousy 3.8% rate of return that was promised by the former finance minister when he designed the changes, it would have been possible to pay a larger benefit to future seniors and, indeed, to the current group of seniors.
Let us not forget that when he passed his initial package of Canada pension plan reforms in 1995, the former minister of finance, currently the leading candidate for the Liberal leadership, actually cut seniors' benefits. That is never mentioned by that side of the House. That is the precedent for what is going on here. The tendency of the government is to go out and look for ways of taking our pension savings and using them for purposes other than maximizing the benefits for Canadian seniors.
I would like to hear the member explain why he thinks the 3.8% rate of return that the government is promising, which is substantially lower than private returns, is acceptable.