Debates of Oct. 30th, 2002

Employment Insurance

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank him for the blast from the past but let us talk about today. In the public accounts the AG stated that she is “unable to conclude that the intent of the Employment Insurance Act has been observed in setting the 2001 premium rates”. That is accountant talk for taxpayers are being soaked.

According to the CFIB, this year's rip off will amount to $5.3 billion. Why does the Prime Minister not announce today that he will end that tax rip off of EI premiums from workers and employers?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would have listened, he would have heard that when the Conservatives were in government they increased it to $3.30.

We have reduced it year after year to $2.20 and we will continue to reduce it. Yes, there is a surplus because we have created 2.5 million new jobs and these people have contributed to EI.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General confirmed once again what the Bloc Quebecois has been saying for years: the federal government is diverting EI surpluses to pay off the debt. The Auditor General stated for the second year in a row that, by setting premiums on its own, the government is not abiding by the spirit of the law.

How can the Prime Minister explain the fact that his government is stubbornly ignoring the spirit of its own law, almost to the point of illegality?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows very well that, when the Progressive Conservatives were in office, the account ran a deficit and was replenished through the government's consolidated fund.

Now, the economy is doing well, and 2.5 million new jobs have been created in the past nine years. We have additional revenue because the economy is doing well and, each year since 1994, we have reduced EI premiums.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government has mainly syphoned the EI account to pay off the debt. That is the reality.

This government has given itself the power to set EI premiums on its own. This is the government that had made a commitment to review the rate setting mechanism for EI premiums, a commitment it has yet to fulfill.

Instead of using the EI surplus to pay off the debt, what is this government waiting for to review the process so that, at the end of the day, workers and businesses pay fair premiums for an appropriate employment insurance system?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the system is in place. When there is a deficit, the government is there to cover it and, when there is a surplus, in this instance, it is true that we used it to reduce the debt. That is how we were able to bring interest rates all the way down to where they are right now. This is benefiting all Canadians, because when they pay their residential mortgage loans, they pay less. The provincial governments are also paying less to service the debt. Everyone benefits from this government's sound management.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette-Et-La Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the surplus in the employment insurance fund is an illusion, because the government has used it to pay off its deficit, and as a result the fund is now empty.

Will the government admit, once and for all, that its use of the EI fund to pay down its debt has bled the fund dry?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is no fund, in the sense that she means, because when the money runs out, the government comes up with more. It is always the government's responsibility. We always assume our responsibilities. The problem we have, which confuses the opposition somewhat, is that our economic policies have been too successful.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette-Et-La Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to the Auditor General, had the surplus in the fund not been pillaged as it was, the budget surplus for the last fiscal year would have been a mere $4 billion instead of $8.9 billion.

When is the government going to at last have the courage to acknowledge that it has made the shameful choice of paying down its debt at the expense of those contributing to EI and of the unemployed workers of this country?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the member on mentioning our country and welcome her to Canada.

What has happened is clear. We had a good economic performance. There were more contributions to the employment insurance fund and we had a surplus. We therefore reduced the debt by $48 billion, which has lowered the interest rate. This freed up more money to invest in social programs such as health, the child tax credit and all manner of things for which we will be praised. And we will continue to do still more, I trust, in the next budget.

Foreign Affairs

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The minister will know that many Arab Canadians are being treated in a degrading and offensive manner by U.S. border officials, being fingerprinted, photographed and detained under oppressive new U.S. immigration laws. It is so bad that the minister's own department has issued a travel advisory to Arab Canadians telling them not to travel to the United States.

I want to ask the minister, will he now call in U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci and tell him to stop harassing Arab Canadians and that we expect all Canadian citizens to be treated equally at the U.S. border?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, this is a matter of great concern to the government and of great concern to Canadians, but it is not true that we have told Canadians of Arab origin not to travel to the United States. We have informed them of the administrative issues which the United States has adopted for its own security.

The United States is legally entitled to adopt security measures on its territory for its own security, but we have told our American friends that we in Canada believe that Canadians are Canadians and we are confident of the security of our citizens, and we will work with our American colleagues all week to resolve this important issue in the interest of both our countries, which are multicultural countries and--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona.

Government of Canada

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is bad enough that some Canadians are being mistreated by Americans but worse that some Canadians are being mistreated by their own government, by CSIS and by Canada Post.

I want to ask the government, either the minister responsible for Canada Post or the new Solicitor General, whoever wants to defend this kind of behaviour, will they be calling a public inquiry into the behaviour of CSIS and Canada Post with respect to the way they have treated their employees, as alleged in a recent book?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, this point has been made in previous question periods. CSIS is very conscious of national security issues. I am aware of the point the member raised and I have been talking to CSIS about it.

Government Contracts

[Greg Thompson, Progressive Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Speaker, for two years I have been asking questions about a DND contract awarded to Lancaster Aviation by Public Works. For two years I have been stonewalled by the government and told there is nothing wrong. The Minister of Public Works and Government Services told the House on June 4 that there is nothing wrong with this contract.

If everything is so clean, could the minister explain why the Auditor General, the RCMP and the FBI are now investigating this contract? What is the status of that investigation?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman first raised this issue with me when I was previously the government House leader, and I know he has a particular interest in a set of circumstances that has been inquired into in the past.

To date, there has been nothing revealed to me that would indicate any substantiation of his allegations, but I assure him that I share his interest in probity and transparency. I am prepared to work with him to make sure that all necessary information is made available.

[Greg Thompson, Progressive Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Speaker, this clearly indicates that the minister either does not care or he does not know, because military spare parts were removed from Canada by Lancaster Aviation and stored in a warehouse in Florida. Incidentally, this warehouse is owned by a convicted U.S. felon, an individual convicted for money laundering and drugs and prostitution related offences.

Why is the minister not on this case? He made a promise, a commitment in the House to let me know and this House know how that investigation would unfold. Does he know or does he care, or is it both?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman asks if I care. Indeed I do. I have indicated to him in the past that I am prepared to work with him to reveal any necessary facts that need to be in the public domain. To this point, nothing has been indicated to me that would substantiate his allegations, but I am prepared to continue the inquiry and to work with him until satisfactory information is available.

Health

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the government is flush with cash revealed today by the finance minister, yet the government has refused to rule out a tax increase for health. Why would that be, unless higher taxes are on its agenda?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, again, thanks to the opposition for complimenting that we have done a good job. On health care we received a report from the Senate last week and there will be a report next month by Commissioner Roy Romanow. Early in the new year, I will be discussing with the provinces a reform of the health care system.

If we have some cash available, we will contribute more. I hope we will be in a position to contribute more, but we will have to do the natural arbitration in government because the opposition is always up to ask for more money for health care, defence and so on, and we try to--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Yellowhead.

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in the past the health minister has refused to rule out a tax increase but today the finance minister said that they are flush with cash, so will the health minister stand up today and rule out a tax increase for health care?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I find it very interesting. I think that most Canadians are focused on how we work together to renew and sustain our health care system. That is what we are focused on, that is what Romanow is focused on and that is what Senator Kirby has been focused on.

As the Prime Minister has just said, as the Minister of Finance has said and as I have said, in fact new money will be injected into health care. The federal government will be there to do its fair share. The Prime Minister will be meeting with his counterparts in January and I have no doubt that we will be able to sign on to a plan that reassures Canadians that their health care system will be there for them in the future.

Kyoto Protocol

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as regards the signing of the Kyoto protocol, yesterday the Prime Minister flatly rejected the request made by provincial premiers to meet to discuss the implementation of this accord. The Prime Minister's excuse was that the signing of treaties comes under federal jurisdiction.

I am asking the Prime Minister how bringing together his counterparts responsible for the environment can jeopardize the federal government's ability to sign an international treaty. What exactly is his problem?