Debates of Oct. 30th, 2002

Foreign Affairs

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since his arrest by an American border patrol on October 11, Michel Jalbert, a resident of Pohénégamook, has been awaiting trial in a Maine jail cell. After we raised the question yesterday, the Minister of Foreign Affairs asked the U.S. authorities to show restraint.

Does the Minister of Foreign Affairs plan to take any further action, and to delegate a local representative to speed up Mr. Jalbert's trial or obtain his release until the trial, so that he can get home to his family as soon as possible?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we will of course do all we can to protect Canadians. Obviously this is still a matter for the U.S. authorities.

The individual involved was unfortunately in the United States when stopped, but we will make representations to the U.S. authorities to get him back home to his family as soon as possible.

Francophonie Summit

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa) (Francophonie). The Francophonie Summit took place in Beirut, Lebanon, October 18 to 20. The Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for the Francophonie were there to represent the interests of all Canadians at this important meeting.

Were the goals and objectives that Canada had set for the summit met?

[Denis Paradis, Liberal, Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa) (Francophonie)]

Mr. Speaker, the summit was a success. Our objectives were certainly met. First, we reaffirmed the importance of the Bamako declaration, supporting values such as democracy, human rights and good governance.

We also spoke of the need for an international instrument in the area of cultural diversity. There was consensus on this.

Finally, given that 29 of the 53 countries in Africa are francophone, we spoke of NEPAD and this synergy that must develop between the Francophonie, NEPAD and the Africa Action Plan.

Presence in Gallery

[The Speaker]

I to draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in the gallery of the Right Hon. Kim Campbell, former Prime Minister of Canada.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Maurice Gaston Cloutier

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I rise this afternoon to pay tribute to Major-General Maurice Gaston Cloutier's 50 years of service to Canada. I do not know him as Major-General Cloutier, however, but as Gus Cloutier.

He is a very competent man, with a keen sense of humour, who has been a friend to all the members of this House for a great many years. He is a great raconteur and a man of action who has served the House of Commons and his country well.

He was a Major-General in the Canadian Air Force from 1952 to 1978. He was appointed sergeant-at-arms in 1978, and Canadian Secretary to Her Majesty the Queen.

His talents were extremely well utilized in the last visit of Her Majesty, the Queen, and many others and he has done all these jobs with great class and competence.

I was here when we had two members of Parliament and two secretaries in one office. This has expanded a lot, and Gus Cloutier has helped to do that very well. He introduced modern equipment and helped the members to be in a better position to communicate among themselves and with their constituents.

Here is a Canadian who has served his country extremely well and at the same time he made a friend of every member of Parliament since 1978. Bien fait.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to join with the Prime Minister in extending congratulations on behalf of all of us to our Sergeant-at-Arms for his 50 years of outstanding public service. He has been a fixture here since his appointment on April 27, 1978 and has fulfilled his duties and responsibilities with honour and integrity for more than 24 years.

It just made me realize that I have been around this Hill off and on for the past 20 years. I have served four times, so I have actually known Gus for a very long time. I certainly can say he has conducted himself with great dignity and retained the sense of humour necessary to survive in this place, not to mention wielding a pretty good mace from time to time.

It is worth noting that in our parliamentary history, dating back to 1867, we have been served by only eight sergeants-at-arm. The longest serving was the second, Henry Robert Smith who served for 26 years. Therefore it is our hope that Maurice Gaston Cloutier will serve for many more years and that at the end of his time at Sergeant-at-Arms he will set a record for the longest service for all time.

On behalf of the official opposition, I extend him our best wishes and hope for his continued success here and in his personal life.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is now my turn to rise today to salute the 50 years of service of the Sergeant-at-Arms, Major-General Gaston Cloutier.

We regularly have the opportunity, here in the House of Commons, to pay tribute to exceptional men and women. I am pleased, along with my Bloc Quebecois colleagues, to mention the exceptional qualities of the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Commons.

To be at the service of the state for half a century is evidence of the great desire to serve the public that Major-General Cloutier has always demonstrated. All parliamentarians can attest to his dedication, his respect and his sense of duty.

All those who have had the opportunity to work with Major-General Cloutier could, as we are doing in this House, attest to his great human qualities. After talking with some of my associates this morning, I can truly say that several people would have loved to have the privilege that is mine today of expressing our gratitude.

Major-General Cloutier is responsible for various services in the House of Commons. He fulfills his duties with an affability and an integrity that make him an essential member of this institution. I know that a number of colleagues in the House consider him a friend.

Mr. Speaker, you know better than anyone else all the tasks required to ensure that parliamentarians can fulfill their responsibilities under the best possible conditions. Hundreds of men and women are contributing, more often than not behind the scenes, to the life of this essential democratic institution. Major-General Cloutier is a person whose priority has always been the respect of the institution and of its members.

He is a person who, because of his keen sense of public duty, understands how what we are doing here helps our society make progress in a democratic and peaceful way.

My Bloc Quebecois colleagues join with me in paying tribute to the 50 years of service of Major-General Cloutier. We thank him for his dedication and for the quality of his work, and we hope that we can keep our close ties with him for a long time to come. Congratulations, dear friend.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I congratulate Major-General Cloutier today on behalf of the New Democratic Party on his 50 years of public service. I have known Mr. Cloutier for 23 years and have the greatest respect for him as a person with the best interests of Parliament at heart.

When we were notified of this event this morning, I heard that we were to keep it a secret because if the Sergeant-at-Arms knew he might not show up for this event. Knowing that he has a sword close by under his desk, I was worried that when he found out and if he got too excited both the leader of the Conservative Party and I might be in danger.

We are glad that he has accepted our admiration, thanks and congratulations with such humility. I, like the hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas, came here only a year after his appointment as Sergeant-at-Arms. I have always found him to be someone who has not only the interest of Parliament at heart but also the interest of members of Parliament at heart.

He has been a source of sage advice, especially for anyone wanting to know the history of the place, exactly what went on in the past and how certain things have come to be. I have worked with him on the Board of Internal Economy, and in every respect, I think I speak for all members when I say, we have a great friend and may he long continue in the position that he now holds.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a good thing there are only five parties in the House or these tributes could cause an outbreak of order.

As someone who was here in this House before Gus Cloutier arrived, it is a privilege for me to join with the members of the Progressive Conservative Party in paying tribute to him today.

He has been a distinguished Canadian public servant for 50 years. It is extraordinary to have spent that much time and given that much quality of service to the country.

As has been noted before, Major General Cloutier joined the Royal Canadian Air Force 50 years ago in 1952. He came to the House in 1978 as Sergeant-at-Arms. He has given outstanding service here, not simply on the questions of procedure and of ceremonies as has been said, but also as a master of thousands of day to day details.

If I may say so, Gus, on behalf of several of my colleagues present and parted, among your other qualities, we appreciate your discretion.

The House leader of the New Democratic Party made reference to the sword that Gus Cloutier carries as Sergeant-at-Arms. He and I had the same thought and so did my normal seatmate, the member for Saint John. We know how well prepared Gus Cloutier is for most things and we were concerned that in a moment of surprise he might draw that mighty sword and clean these benches.

The member for Saint John has taken the course of prudence and is expressing her good wishes to you from a safe distance, Gus. She also said to me that she thought, thinking about the sword, if you were to draw it, given your responsibilities to Her Majesty the Queen, it would probably be directed at the Deputy Prime Minister and not at anyone else here.

This is a place of rules and at the end of the day the Sergeant-at-Arms is the officer who enforces them. What has characterized Gus Cloutier's service to the House has been that while he is a respecter of the rules, he is not at all their prisoner. He has always found ways to facilitate the work of members of Parliament while retaining the dignity of this institution. In a word, he has been a friend of the member of this House. He makes this House of Commons work.

We are celebrating your service today not simply, Gus, on the basis of the length of service but of the high quality of that service and of your sensitivity to the life and nature of this institution. Thank you.

[The Speaker]

I want to add my words of appreciation to the Sergeant-at-Arms for his good service for 50 years and say that I am pleased I have not had to call upon him to enforce any ruling from the Chair. For that I thank all hon. members.

There will be a reception for the Sergeant-at-Arms in room 216, immediately after he leaves the Chamber.

Points of Order

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to extend the outbreak of good cheer for a few more moments.

I am told that today is the 30th anniversary of the election of the class of 1972. As I look around the chamber, unless I am mistaken, there are only two survivors of that particular class. One is my House leader, the hon. member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, and the other is the outgoing leader of the federal Progressive Conservative Party. Both obviously have long and distinguished records. Although I think both had interludes in this, I nevertheless think all members of the House would like to congratulate them on their very long service and contribution to public life.

[Cheryl Gallant, Canadian Alliance, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today I rise on a point of order in regard to comments made by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence after yesterday's question period.

The parliamentary secretary made the statement that I have never cared to ask a question in this House about the Emergency Preparedness College in Arnprior. I find it truly unfortunate that the member would stoop so low as to make such an unfounded accusation when the record clearly shows that this is not the case. I invite the hon. member to do the honourable thing, to correct the record and withdraw his comment.

[John O'Reilly, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, continuing with the debate that is going on in the House, not the point of order, I certainly would recognize that the member did ask the day before or two days before about the college. That was the first time it was ever brought to my attention that the member knew the college was there and I pointed that out.

[The Speaker]

I think it is obvious we are into a debate. Just to help things along perhaps the ruling which follows will bring this matter to an end.

Privilege

[The Speaker]

I am now prepared to rule on the question of privilege raised by the hon. member for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke in which she claimed that her privileges had been breached during question period on Friday, October 25.

My thanks to the Leader of the Government in the House, the Minister of National Defence, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services for their contributions to the discussion.

The essence of the argument of the member for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke is that the response given by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence for her inquiry about funding for the Canadian Emergency Preparedness College was deliberately misleading.

I have carefully considered the arguments put forward by the hon. member, as well as those made by other members. I can find no evidence that would suggest that a breach of privilege has occurred. Rather, it appears to me that a dispute as to facts exists and that the matter would no doubt more properly be pursued by the hon. member through debate in the usual manner, whether in question period or elsewhere.

I trust this therefore settles the matter.

Points of Order

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we have had a longstanding tradition in the House that the Speaker introduces people in the gallery. The Minister of National Defence, in the middle of an answer, I guess for lack of having any real good answer, mentioned somebody sitting in the gallery, which provoked a standing ovation.

This side of the House has no problem with standing ovations for the members of our military because they deserve it, especially with the way the government has been treating them. I know that members on this side of the House who have mentioned people in the gallery have paid a penalty of not being up for question period for 30 days. We certainly would not want to see that happen to the minister because we are hoping that some day we will get a real answer out of him.

I would hope, Mr. Speaker, that you could advise the members on that side of the House and the ministers that the job of introducing people in the gallery, even if they are not named but by military statement, is your job and nobody else's.

[John O'Reilly, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, it is true that members of the HMCS Algonquin were in the gallery today. That was not mentioned by the minister or by anyone. It was myself as parliamentary secretary on Thanksgiving who welcomed them back to the Strait of Juan de Fuca to their base, not the members of the Alliance Party who did not have the courtesy to show up.

[The Speaker]

The difficulty of referring to the presence of members of the public who may be in the gallery is one that is known to hon. members and I have had to exercise certain powers of chastisement in this regard from time to time on members on both sides of the House. It has particularly dealt with Standing Order 31 statements where reference by members to people in the gallery is disruptive and of course loses time so we do not get as many S.O. 31 statements as we might otherwise have.

I listened to the question and the answer today. I must say I do not recall, and had I heard the minister make some reference to people in the gallery, I would have been on my feet in a flash. However, I will check the blues and I will in fact look at the videotape of the proceedings to see if there was some hint. I sensed that there were people in the gallery; I detected that there was talk of people in the navy being particularly thanked, but I did not think the minister either pointed or said they were there. However, I will check the blues and if necessary, I will chastise the minister.

This is not a matter that makes a speaker quail, and the hon. member for Edmonton North knows that, but I think it is very important that we bear this in mind.

Yesterday there were references to people who had just left the gallery, which I found troubling, and references to the people who were coming into the gallery later, which I found troubling because I had a feeling they might have already been there.

I urge hon. members to respect our traditions and avoid these kinds of references in their remarks. We are functioning as a House here on this level. The people who are in the heavens, up higher, are not necessarily ones we ought to refer to in the course of our debate.

I encourage all hon. members to cooperate, as always, with the Chair in observing the rules and traditions of this Chamber.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Chair is preparing to announce the opposition day motion for tomorrow.

As the Speaker will know, this new convention we have of having these announcements from the Chair was made pursuant to recommendation No. 37 of the modernization committee report. The modernization committee report stated that moving up the notice requirement should facilitate the preparation for debate, including the scheduling of speakers. Mr. Speaker will no doubt be familiar with the entirety of that recommendation.

It has been drawn to my attention that two motions have been asked to be placed on the order paper for tomorrow. Before the Speaker announces which one of those motions, in the unlikely event that the Speaker would announce that there are two of them, I want to draw to the attention of Mr. Speaker that the modernization committee report, later translated into the standing order, had as an objective to ensure that members knew precisely the topic being raised the following day in the House. Listing two, three, four, or next week, six dozen items would effectively prevent members of Parliament from having the benefit of that information which was contained in the modernization committee report which was adopted unanimously by this House of Commons.

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, as you prepare to tell us what the item is for debate tomorrow, I would like to call upon the Chair to ensure that there is only one item that is brought to our attention and in so doing, the letter and the intention of the modernization committee report will be respected.

If Mr. Speaker feels that he has to perhaps review what the modernization committee report said, along with the accompanying new standing order, and perhaps render a decision later this afternoon, I would be very pleased to hear that at the appropriate time. I wanted to bring this to the attention of the Chair so that all who say we want more modern rules in the House of Commons clearly live by what we say and what we announce, not by what loopholes we think we can concoct.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is very interesting to hear from the government House leader about the rules that we may concoct. He sat on the same modernization committee with me. He would also remember that the report recommended ministerial announcements be made in the House, which is not done very often these days. We have raised that as a point of order.

I might also mention that normally the government has several items on the agenda but the government has none. Therefore, it is quite interesting the government would complain about this.

As my final point, I find it very interesting that the government House leader knows what we have on the order paper before the Speaker has even announced it in the House.

[The Speaker]

In the circumstances, I am certainly prepared to take under consideration the point raised by the hon. government House leader and responded to by the hon. member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast.

It seems to me that where two motions are received, and in my recollection this happened not that long ago, last summer if I am not mistaken, but I wish to indicate that my intention would be to indicate tomorrow morning which of the two will be called, unless some other arrangement has been made.

Business of the House

[The Speaker]

Accordingly, it is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 81(14) to inform the House that the following two notices of motion have been filed with the Clerk.

The votable motion standing in the name of the hon. member for Wetaskiwin reads as follows:

That this House support the election of senators, who would then have a democratic mandate to carry out their constitutional responsibilities, by calling on the Prime Minister to take an important first step toward this goal and appoint Burt Brown, who was duly elected as a Senator by the Province of Alberta, to fill the upcoming Alberta vacancy in the Senate.

The other votable motion, standing in the name of the hon. member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast reads as follows:

That Standing Order 106 be amended

(a) by replacing section (2) with the following:

“(2) At the commencement of every session and, if necessary, during the course of the session, each standing or special committee shall elect a Chair and two Vice-Chairs, of whom the Chair and one Vice-Chair shall be Members of the government party and one Vice-Chair shall be a Member of the Opposition. In the case of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, the Chair shall continue to be a Member of the Official Opposition and the Vice-Chairs shall be Members of the government party. In the case of the Standing Joint Committee on Scrutiny of Regulations, the Co-Chair acting on behalf of the House shall be a Member of the Official Opposition and the Vice-Chairs shall be Members of the government party.”

(b) by inserting the following new section (3):

“(3) When more than one candidate is nominated for the office of Chair or Vice-Chair of a committee, the election shall be conducted by secret ballot as follows:

(a) the clerk of the committee, who shall preside over the election, shall announce the candidates to the committee members present and provide them with ballot papers;

(b) committee members wishing to indicate their choice for Chairman or Vice-Chairman of the committee shall print the first and last names of the candidate on the ballot paper;

(c) the committee members shall deposit their completed ballot papers in a box provided for that purpose;

(d) the clerk of the committee shall count the ballots and announce the name of the candidate who has received the majority of votes;

(e) if no candidate has received a majority of votes, a second ballot shall be taken, provided that the candidate with the least number of votes shall be dropped from the second ballot; balloting shall continue in this manner until a candidate receives the majority of votes, at which time the clerk shall destroy the ballots and in no way divulge the number of ballots cast for any candidate.”;

and that the Clerk be authorized to make any required editorial and consequential amendments and that the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs conduct a review of this new procedure before a second application takes place.

Copies of the motions are available at the table.

Having received two notices of motion, pursuant to Standing Order 84(14)(c), tomorrow, if required, I will determine which motion shall have precedence.

Board of Internal Economy

[The Speaker]

I have the honour to inform the House that Mr. Loyola Hearn, member for the electoral district of Saint John's West, has been appointed member of the Board of Internal Economy in place of Mr. Peter MacKay, member for the electoral district of Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough.