Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise in debate today. I must admit that I had no plan to comment on the kind of behaviour we have witnessed here today.
Like just about every member who spoke before me, I will definitely talk about democracy. I will focus on the definition of democracy given by the Prime Minister of Canada.
I think it is pretty far removed from the major democratic issues in the history of western civilization, and eastern civilization for that matter. Democracy has not been debated for quite a while. It was probably instigated by the great Greek philosophers, who had a very comprehensive and well articulated definition of democracy. They practised what they preached.
Since I came here in 1993, I have been noticing a real erosion of democracy and ability to exercise any power.
There are several definitions. Winston Churchill said that democracy was the least objectionable political system, but I find that the goings on here today have set a new record for low.
For the benefit of those watching us, I would like to state the facts. A committee approved a report providing that, from now on, the chairs of all House committees may be elected by secret ballot. This would depart from what has been the practice these past years, with chairs being systematically appointed by the Prime Minister's Office.
Some people have felt that the concept of democracy that has come down to us over thousands of years and has become better and more sophisticated over time could not be allowed to regress to the state it was in in 1993, when a member got a call from the Prime Minister's Office saying “There are seven or eight of you, Liberal members, on this committee, and all of you are going to vote for so-and-so”. The meetings are often run by the clerk. The first member to raise his hand is a Liberal member who nominates so-and-so. Because they are the majority, the Liberals all raise their hands, and so-and-so is elected. That is how it works. This is cutting a few too many corners.
Members who wish to speak on who should be elected as chair cannot do so, and a vote is taken. There follows the election of the first vice-chair. Hands go up. Again a Liberal member. The second vice-chair is usually a member of the opposition. I have also seen attempts by the Liberal Party to take over the whole meeting.
What is happening here today is terrible. It must also be understood that committees are democratic forums where we want to apply more flexible rules to give some weight to the opposition.
As Socrates used to say to Greek philosophers, opposition is important in a democracy. We know what happens in a country where there is no opposition. Do people think that Iraqis had a choice between Saddam Hussein and someone else? They had a choice between Saddam Hussein and Saddam Hussein. There was only one name on the ballot and they voted for him. Moreover, they were forced to vote.
We too, in committee, are forced to vote, but the vote is often controlled by the Prime Minister. It so happens that our Liberal friends all vote the same way. Often, the opposition will split when it sees that it is beaten.
What is happening here today is important. People must realize that we cannot let democracy deteriorate like this. There must be a more flexible process in committee. We also understand how a democracy works.
Usually, before a vote is held, a debate takes place. We could talk about this for a long time too, and I have often condemned this situation. Whether it was on the sending of troops to Afghanistan or other issues, we had a number of debates. In the case of Afghanistan, the troops were already aboard and on their way overseas when we were discussing whether or not we should send them. We had a take note debate that was not followed by a vote. Is this a democratic way of doing things? One might well wonder.
As we can see, democracy is constantly being eroded. I think it is important to have this debate today. I also think that democracy is being somewhat undermined by the Liberal party.
What are the career aspirations of every backbencher? They involve a key: the key to the ministerial limo. That is what is important.
When the time comes to vote, what are the Liberal members thinking of? The limo and the key to the limo. If a minister gets in trouble, and has to step down, as often happens, then some backbencher is going to end up with the key to the limo on his desk. So all the Liberal MPs rush back to their office, where they wait for the phone to ring and someone to tell them they are going to get that key. That is their key concern.
When democracy is flouted and the position is filled by bulldozer, there are no problems. What we often hear from the members opposite is this “We got the power, because of our majority”. I consider that to be flouting democracy to some extent. It is reducing democracy to a matter of a mere majority. When one exercises power, one must be far more subtle than that.
Now, for the people who vote. We have always said that, in a democracy, one vote is as good as another. And so, one MP should be as good as another. This, however, is not how the Liberal Party looks at it. In its view, the votes it records are the most important, and never mind democracy, or the opposition, which must exist if there is to be a democracy.
We have reached the point now where the Prime Minister calls all the shots, including committee appointments. There are two lines of defence for the Prime Minister: first the committee; since all of the Liberals must vote together, and they are all haunted and worried about their future and the limousine.
If things go wrong in committee and if there are a few members who take a courageous stand at this point and say, “I do not care about the limousine; they are asking too much of me”, then there is the second line of defence, which is the House. Committees can study a matter for a few days. No reason to worry. The Prime Minister expects his Liberals to vote together. So, if there is a problem there, it is taken up again in the House.
If that is going to be the case, I do not see the point in having committees. How is there supposed to be any intelligent debate in committee, when we know that we will never make it past the first line of defence. It is not the government members who will stymie us, but more the great Liberal democracy, because there are more Liberals than opposition members.
It seems to me that democracy has been distorted. There is another thing that I do not understand. We know that there is a leadership race going one, and that the member for LaSalle—Émard is touring from one end of Canada to the other talking about the great Canadian democracy. He has said that we must give more powers to the standing committees of the House of Commons. We have his speech here, we have seen it. Yet, when we move a motion that contains the exact same terms that the honourable and august member for LaSalle—Émard used publically, he stood and said, “I will vote against it”.
How is this logical?