Madam Speaker, we are debating the amendment that has been put forward by the member, the deputy whip of the Liberal Party. We are debating the amendment which obviously flowed from the concurrence motion that came forward from the chairman of the procedure and House affairs committee.
I want the members of the House to recognize that this is simply another expansion of the democratic deficit. What is happening right now is that we have a democratically voted motion that came forward from procedure and House affairs. It said unequivocally that one small little democratic reform was to be put into place in the House. One small democratic reform was nothing more than a secret ballot to elect the chairmen of the standing committees of the House. What a great idea. It came from the committee. It was put forward by the chairman today and now it is being amended to be sent back to the committee for 15 days. One has to ask the question: Why is the government so frightened? What is it so afraid of, to have this motion come forward in concurrence and have a vote in the House? Why must it be put back for 15 days?
I will tell members why. Because on November 7 when the House is under the Standing Orders of the House, the committees will be struck. The first item of business when the committees are struck will be an organizational meeting at which time the chairs and the vice-chairs will be elected. On November 7, which is before that 15 day time period, the Prime Minister's appointees will then be, by a show of hands, elected by those committees. Not only will they be elected by a show of hands, but they will be whipped into voting for that Prime Minister's appointee.
Do the members on that bench not realize that this is the opportunity to stand up and be noticed, not only by the House but by the citizens of this country, as having some backbone and certainly putting into place that democratic reform?
Then the Prime Minister will say that since all of the appointees have already been elected by the show of hands, there is no need for the procedure and House affairs committee to continue with this motion, let us have it changed in the procedure and House affairs committee. How does the Prime Minister do that? By changing the members of the committee. What a wonderful strategy: to go back to the Prime Minister's Office and say “we have total control”. That is what it is all about. It is about control, not about democracy.
Let us talk about some of the items that came forward in a speech just recently about democracy. There is a member of that very government who stood up not that long ago and suggested, number one, that there should be a secret ballot for committee chairs, but he went beyond that. He suggested that there should be change to private members' business as well, that private members' business should be more adapted not only to the members of the opposition, but also to the backbenches of the Liberals.
Private members' business should be taken seriously because, by the way, believe it or not, there are a lot of intelligent people in the House, not only on this side of the House, I will even give credit to that side of the House. A lot of those good ideas should be allowed to come forward, should be allowed to be put on the floor of the House and be voted on the merits of the bill, not on the fact that the Prime Minister's Office or a minister does not like what is coming forward outside of their office. That is what that individual stood and said. That is democracy. By the way, he probably took his blueprint from a white paper, a discussion paper, that we had put forward a number of months previously with respect to democratic reform. He also said that there should be an independent ethics counsellor. Hon. members should go figure. We have been saying that for a long time. That also speaks to democracy.
Today the strategy that is being implemented by the House does not allow any of this free thinking to go forward. I am absolutely frustrated and ashamed to stand in the House and say “Why is it that we cannot put our views forward to the Canadian public on a simple thing like electing a member to the chair?”
I want all Canadians to know right now that the 45 minutes during question period is not the important business of the House. That 45 minutes is simply theatrics. The important business of the House takes place in debate and particularly in debate at committee. I take great pleasure in being able to put forward my views at committee, and yes, even have my views accepted by members of the government because those views in fact do mean something and, yes, I do understand something of the committee that I sit on.
In the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs I would vote on a secret ballot for the current chair of that committee. I would vote for him in a secret ballot because he is the best person for the job. Because he takes his job to heart. Because he understands the portfolio. Because he really is an unbiased chair of that committee. I would vote for him in a secret ballot. I cannot say the same thing for other committees that I sit on, because those appointees do not have the same heart for the committee that other members on that side have.
I strongly believe the person who has the ability should be the chair, not the person who is appointed by the Prime Minister's Office. Under this concurrence motion I would have the right to vote by secret ballot for the person I felt was the best person to be that chair. That person would also be a government member. There is nothing wrong with that. There is a majority, and I am prepared to accept that, yes, he or she could be a government member. I do not have any difficulty with this and the motion speaks to the person being a government member. It has to be a government member. The vice-chair has to be a government member. The second vice-chair can be a member of the opposition, as it is today.
I would like to have the opportunity to put the best person in the job. What is the argument to that? That there has to be regional parity and there has to be gender parity. I would much prefer to see the best person, than to try to change this function to put a person in place who does not have the ability. By the way, the gender parity and the regional parity will work itself out. The government has the right to appoint members to the committee. It can have that balance in committee members. It still has the majority. Why can it not allow the best person to do the job as the chairman?
By the way, the government really has not had a lot of success with parity. There are other ministers who are no longer ministers of the crown simply because they did not have the ability when they were placed in those jobs. There was a minister for CIDA, the solicitor general on a couple of occasions, also the minister for the status of women and multiculturalism. They were put into place because there was a requirement for gender parity, or for that matter regional parity, and it did not work. It does not work any better when they are appointed to the front benches as it does with the chairs of the committees.
The reason why there are many people here debating the issue is that it cuts to the heart of democracy. It cuts to the heart of what we are doing in the House. What it does is simply say “stand up and be heard”. Not only does it say stand up, but it says make sure our voices mean something. It is a complete sham the way it is right now. I will tell hon. members why people do not come back to the House after a number of terms. Because they get frustrated at being what was mentioned by, I believe, the chair of the procedure and House affairs committee: I am not a eunuch. I have to say “thou protest too much”. When a person starts telling people one is not, in most cases one probably is.
The problem is that we need to have impartiality in the chairs of those committees. We must have an individual who is prepared to take his or her agenda forward, not because the minister of the department tells them to but because it is the right thing to do for the standing committee. It could be the Standing Committee on Finance, the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food or the Standing Committee on Health. The chairman has to be the person to take that agenda forward, regardless of whether the minister wants it to happen or not because it is what is best for the House and best for Canadians.
The amendment we are dealing right now with is completely irrelevant. Let the Liberals, the government, vote on the concurrence motion. Let them vote on the issue of a secret ballot for committee chairs. That is all it is. We are not asking for anything else, just that one small step for democracy.
I am going to sit and listen to all of the rationalization and all the justification that comes out the mouths of the people on the other side. They had better make good arguments because Canadians are listening. If they do not tell us the real reason why and they are not going to allow this democratic reform to go forward, then they had better answer to Canadians.