Debates of Oct. 31st, 2002

Correctional Service Canada

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, asking the same question with other words does not change the facts. The court ruled in the past that it was unconstitutional when there was a total ban on inmates voting. We changed that to a two year ban. It has now said that is not the required amount. We will review the decision in great detail and respond to the House.

However, the suggestion of the hon. member regarding what he calls disgraceful behaviour by the Supreme Court is not one which I nor anyone else on our side of the House would associate with and he should know better as a lawyer.

Taxation

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Finance really tried everything to hide the magnitude of the surplus that the federal government will rack up in the fiscal years to come. We are used to this attitude, since his predecessor was off by as much 500% in his forecasts. This is no small matter.

Will the Minister of Finance admit that, if he presented the real figures, the ones that are more likely to reflect the reality, he would no longer be able to publicly reject a debate on the fiscal imbalance?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there is no fiscal imbalance. We know that the Bloc Quebecois thinks there is a fiscal imbalance when there is a federal surplus, but it does not talk about an imbalance when there is a federal deficit.

The level of the deficit in the 20 years prior to 1997 was much higher than the level of the surplus in the past four or five years.

Therefore, I presume he thinks that it is justifiable for the provinces to help reduce the federal government's accumulated deficit.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister announced, in spite of what the Auditor General said, that he would increase the number of foundations and invest billions of dollars in them. This is money that will not be included in the budgetary process. The minister even created a second contingency fund, in addition to the one that already exists.

Will the minister admit that, had he not done this, the magnitude of the actual surplus that the government will have in the coming years would be such that he would not be able to avoid a discussion with the provinces, and will he admit that he has too much taxing power given his responsibilities, while the provinces have a hard time fulfilling their own responsibilities, particularly as regards health care?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, both levels of government have the same taxing powers, except that the provinces also collect royalties on natural resources and lotteries. I know that there is a great deal of uncertainty. Making forecasts is not an exact science.

We also know that, in the United States, they anticipated a surplus in excess of $200 billion for last year, but they now have a deficit of over $165 billion.

I prefer to make mistakes that result in a surplus rather than a deficit.

Parliamentary Reform

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, apparently there was a time when the Prime Minister believed in democracy. Now he argues against such small democratic advances as secret ballot elections of chairs and vice-chairs of parliamentary committees.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Why can he not bring himself to trust all members of his caucus to pick their own chairs and vice-chairs by secret ballot?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows that this issue is before the House. I even offered this morning to collapse the debate and have a vote on it. The record will show that his party decided otherwise and filibustered for the rest of the morning to avoid having a vote on it.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is absolutely inaccurate. This minister said that. The last four speakers in the House were his members. We were waiting for it to collapse and have a vote. It is not true what the minister said.

In 1990 the Prime Minister told the New Brunswick Telegraph Journal “You cannot not say that what you do does not matter, and that you are right and everyone else is wrong. That is not democracy”, he said, “that is a dictatorship”.

What is the difference between that dictatorship he described in 1990 and the steel fisted way he runs his caucus and parliamentary affairs today?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. members in that party, after putting some of their own members in the doghouse for months and some for years because they did not like the way they behaved on committee and otherwise, are hard pressed to make these kinds of remonstrances against other members of the House.

If the hon. member wants this issue to come to a vote, I am quite prepared to do so and let the democratic will of the House decide.

Official Languages

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, 33 years after the Official Languages Act was passed, Air Canada continues to violate it. Unable to assign bilingual staff to certain flights, the company is asking French-speaking passengers to switch flights, instead of respecting their rights.

Does the Minister of Transport find it acceptable that after 33 years, Air Canada is still unable to comply with the law?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, my office in fact contacted Air Canada today and Air Canada will be looking into this matter, which is of great concern to the Government of Canada.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this has gone on for 33 years. That is long enough. In defence, Air Canada said yesterday that it was applying Department of Transport directives.

Can the minister tell us who is telling the truth? Is it Air Canada or the Department of Transport that is in violation of the law?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the response of my colleague is totally accurate with respect to the official language provisions as they apply to Air Canada. Transport Canada regulations provide that security briefings be given in both languages at all times. It also provides that those persons seated at an exit understand and be fully conversant with the flight crew.

It is not a question of the safety regulations, as my colleague, the minister, has just said. It is a question of whether Air Canada has enough bilingual personnel to do the safety job, and that is in question.

Terrorism

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, CSIS documents today continue to painfully reveal that Hezbollah terrorists are using Canada as a home base and that the government has no way of tracking where their fundraising goes. That coincides with the Israeli government arresting and charging a Canadian with helping to kill Israeli citizens in Hezbollah's terrorist attacks.

With Hezbollah's 20 year history of terrorist activity in many countries and with the recent revelations of Canada's own intelligence agency, what exactly does a terrorist group have to do to get banned in Canada?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned previously, there has been a number of entities listed. CSIS does the investigation to see if there are other groups. There is no question that CSIS is aware that there are potential terrorist groups operating in Canada, but in terms of doing the analysis, it has to protect the interest of public safety and security and also the privacy interests of Canadians.

[Stockwell Day, Canadian Alliance, Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the new minister is learning quickly how not to answer questions. I will try another one on him. The former CSIS director, Mr. Reid Morden said:

I'm sure there is a very large political calculation in the nervousness with which the government is clearly addressing this. I guess I feel rather critical of that.

Here we have the former director of CSIS suggesting the government will not ban Hezbollah because it wants to placate certain interest groups that support the Liberals.

By failing to ban all fundraising and other activities of the terrorist group Hezbollah, is the Liberal government being naively negligent or grossly partisan? Which of those two is it?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I would refer the hon. member to the SIRC just tabled in which it addresses not this specific issue, but finding the balance. I will quote from the document. It says:

In watching over the activities of CSIS, the Review Committee helps ensure that balance is maintained. Although we must be sensitive to public and expert opinion—and take deliberate steps to inform ourselves—we must also take care not to be unduly swayed.

The SIRC report is saying is that CSIS is doing its job and doing it correctly.

The Environment

[Rose-Marie Ur, Liberal, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. I am pleased that the government has set a target of 1 billion litres of ethanol to be produced each year by 2010.

Would the Minister of Natural Resources explain to the House and to all Canadians how the government plans to meet these targets?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the member for Lambton--Kent--Middlesex for her good work in terms of ethanol and the rural caucus. They have been moving this agenda forward. That is why the Government of Canada has exempted the excise tax up to 10¢ for ethanol. We have invested in loan guarantees. We are investing in research and development. Part of our climate change plan is to ensure that more ethanol is used in fuel so we can protect the environment and do our job on climate change.

Coast Guard

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the men and women who work for our coast guard are some of the bravest people in Canada, willing to risk their lives at any moment to save the lives of mariners around the world. Those same people feel very let down by their government in terms of continuous cutbacks to the coast guard. The Minister of National Defence should be congratulated for seeking more revenue than resources from his cabinet.

I directly ask the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to speak to the men and women of the coast guard. Will he now go to his cabinet and fight for more resources for the brave men and women of our coast guard?

[Robert Thibault, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to join with the member for Musquodoboit Valley--Eastern Shore and say that the Minister of National Defence serves as an example to us all.

I agree with the member that the men and women of the Canadian Coast Guard do a great job. The Government of Canada takes the recapitalization of the coast guard very seriously. In the year 2000 we committed $115 million for the replacement of over 40, 47 foot life boats. Half of them have been delivered and the other half under are construction.

At cabinet we discussed the future capitalization requirements of the coast guard, and I discuss this with the Minister of Finance, not in press conferences.

Persons with Disabilities

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister for HRDC claims she is concerned about Canadians with disabilities, but in B.C. up to 18,000 people with disabilities could be eliminated from benefits because of Gordon Campbell's draconian policies.

Why is the minister's government so willing to defend corporate rights when it comes to international agreements, but ignores the rights of the poor and disabled as defined in international agreements and committed to by her government? Why is her government so silent on defending these basic human rights as defined in international agreements? Why is she not standing up and defending those people in B.C.?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to Canadians with disabilities the government has a long and positive track record. I want to remind the hon. member of the fact that through our opportunities fund we invest over $40 million a year ensuring that Canadians with disabilities have got access to the workplace.

I also want to remind the hon. member that every year the government transfers $193 million to the provinces to assist Canadians with disabilities find employability.

We continue to work with our provinces to build a system of employability to ensure that Canadians have the support they need to work in the Canadian economy. We will continue to work with them.

Financial Institutions

[Scott Brison, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said in the House on Tuesday, “The Minister of Finance has all authority on the Bank Act”. That is what the Minister of Finance thought too when he encouraged bank merger discussions this summer.

Why did the Prime Minister reverse the decision of his own finance minister by shutting down these bank merger discussions? Does he not trust his minister's judgment on this issue?

[John Manley, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, there was no decision to reverse. There is a law. It was passed last year in the House, called Bill C-8. It provides for formal applications for mergers. If banks wish to make a proposal under the law, they are perfectly free to do so.