“Consider setting a national target of having 35% of the gasoline with 10% ethanol or at least 5% fossil free by 2010”. How much will that save? It will save .9 megatonnes. We have 70 megatonnes that we are claiming from a false credit for clean energy, but we will save .9 megatonnes by using ethanol. Obviously let us use it if it is cheaper to produce. However there are many questions about that. Let us do what we can to have cleaner burning cars. No one would disagree with that. I think we could get the automobile companies on side.
General Motors is working on half-ton trucks that run on hydrogen. We will be using all hydrogen in the future. We will not be using carbon fuels. It is a waste of our carbon based fuels to burn them in cars, buses, trains, et cetera. We should be using alternate energy but we are not there yet because the technology is not there. However we are getting there and we should work toward that instead of investing in something dumb like Kyoto.
“Consider a target of 500 litres of bio-diesel”. I do not know what that means. Bio-diesel is being used by the City of Toronto. I think it is being used by Brantford. There Some cities have put their city vehicles onto bio-diesel. They are bringing in soybean oil from the U.S. to mix with diesel and it is 20% less polluting. In that 20% they use a mix of 20:80 diesel and soy and that works. We could use canola. However it costs energy to produce those things and it also costs energy to squeeze them and purify them so they can be mixed with the diesel. It is not a straight win-win situation. It has some costs.
“Consider setting performance targets and best practices for all modes of transportation”. Well, performance targets sounds pretty good too. That gets down again to driving slowly and I am not sure how that will work. I would love to see the government's plan for my area which has highway 2, a busy highway. I would love to see its plan for the 401, 403, 407 and how it would get those people to drive 80 kilometres an hour. I just do not know what the government would do. Will there be cameras on every corner? Will thousands more police be hired? What will the government do to make this happen?
“Consumer awareness to improve fuel efficiency”. I guess that means slow down, do not accelerate too fast and when going down a hill turn the car off. “Improve the off-road vehicle fuel efficiency”. That sounds okay too. All these things sound okay, and as one member points out, I guess we drive in the ditch.
“Improve intramodal freight opportunities”. This is the very government that has moved a lot of railways out. I think of Mr. Lee Morrison who fought rail abandonment, and I know his successor has fought it as well. I know our agriculture committee has fought this sort of thing. The government is not committed to more rail or better rail transportation.
The CNR today announced a 1,000 job lay-off. Those are Canadians who lost their jobs today. Think of the number of pink slips there will be when we implement Kyoto? What is the hurry? Let us have reasonable targets. Let us have reasonable time to achieve those.
We now get into buildings. There are actions under way to improve buildings. Yes, the government is trying to insulate them better. Some are using solar collectors on the roofs. There are things being done. That is about four megatonnes.
“Accelerate home energy evaluations, retrofitting programs, improve standards and improve consumer awareness”. Again, I do not think that too many of us in the House, certainly on this side, would not agree that if we can build a house which is more fuel efficient and is competitive in the marketplace, then let us go for it. If triple-pane windows are the way to go, then let us go for it. Let us convince people. Let us show them that this is the better way to go. However let us not price houses out of range for that mom, dad and kids who want to buy their first home. Let us not price them out of the range where they can never afford to have a house. Let us be reasonable about how we approach this.
When we talk this way, we are talking about increasing the cost of everything that we do. There is a point at which we cannot keep increasing that cost. We need to then look at technology to solve the problems. Technology is the solution. Solar, wind, a combination of that and ultimately hydrogen generators are the way to go. That is the future, but it is not here yet. It is not here until 2030, 2040 or 2050. That is what scientists, engineers and corporations say.
The one important part about Kyoto is that it has brought it to everyone's attention. That is good. It is good that we are talking about it and it is good we are trying to become more informed about it.
Another point is “Consider requiring all new homes to be built by R-2000 standards”. Think about what that means totally.
“Target all new buildings to be built to a minimum of 25% better than the national energy code by 2010”. I wonder how many new buildings that might affect. How much investment might that affect? It would be nice to have answers to those questions before we commit to this sort of thing. How can we commit to these kinds of expenses until we know what the real costs are?
What will we to large industry emitters? We are going to establish over all targets through consultation. What kind of consultation? I used a quote from SaskPower this morning. It said that it would have to increase its rates 25%. IPSCO steel said that it if did that, it would leave the country. I guess that is consultation. One party said this and the other party said that and that is it. How will it impact the people of Regina? What will happen to those jobs in Regina? That is a huge industry for that city. That province needs that industry.
Before we go off half-cocked with the Kyoto protocol, would it not be better to have research into what else we might do, what other sources of energy, what other means of conservation we might have? Maybe one answer is to put new light bulbs that are 75% more efficient in people's houses. Maybe that is an answer. There are solutions and I think we need to start looking at them.
So we are going to consult. That is what the government says. It has not done it yet. The provinces say no, industry says no, Canadians say no, but now they are committing. Is this worth the paper it is written on? That is the question.
Regarding the 279 megatonne permit allocation and emissions trading, I have no idea what that means except cost, cost, cost. How are we going to manage domestic emissions trading? I sat in on a presentation on emissions trading. I actually took the course on how emissions trading will work. I am afraid to say, if I were making notes, and I did make some notes, that there is one word that would describe it: bureaucracy.
I was straightened out by a fellow from Great Britain who was brought here by the government to show us its system of emissions trading to try to put some smarts into my head so I could understand it. At the end of that presentation, the word I would use to describe it, from what he told me, is bureaucracy. It takes a huge bureaucracy to set up this whole emissions trading scheme. Is that what we want in this country, more bureaucracy and more waste of taxpayer money? I do not think so. Again, I think there is a better way.
Who are these large industries that we are going after? We reviewed in our pie chart this morning who they are. Remember that the industries that are the biggest emitters are the large manufacturers, the power plants and the oil and gas industry. That is who we have to hit with these permits. That is what we have to do. The government goes on to discuss, regarding large industry emitters, cost shared strategies. Does anyone smell government money there? Does anyone smell government getting into business there? That is what I see. I do not want government in business. Whenever government gets into business we have all the problems that the Prime Minister and his crew have had because they got into business.
It also claims that it is going to work with industry to manage the risks, as if the government could understand business well enough to know what the risks are. The biggest risk is going to be the unknown: not knowing what Kyoto is going to do to us. That is the biggest risk that we might have. If I were a large industry in the country right now, I would be really worried, and the large industries are. The Canadian Manufacturers' Association is really worried. The oil and gas industry is really worried. The Canadian Chamber of Commerce is really worried. Why are they worried? They are worried because of the unknown. They do not understand why we are the only country in the Americas to sign on to an agreement like Kyoto.
The provinces are worried. All of the provinces are worried. That is why none of the provinces will be showing up on Friday. They are all worried. Each one is worried about the jobs in its province. Each province is worried about its economy. Each province is worried about its tax base. They are all worried because of the unknown.
Why is there so much that is unknown? Because the government will not tell us the costs, it will not tell us its plan, and it will not tell us how it will implement it, that is why. I think it probably does not know the answer to those questions.