Maybe I will do that tomorrow or later on.
The important point is that section C of the Kyoto accord states that by 2005 a country must show substantial reductions in CO
2
. That is what we are talking about ratifying. Where is Canada in this regard? In 1999 Canada was 15% over CO
2
emissions from 1990 levels. In 2000 we were 20% over in CO
2
emissions. Today we are 23% over in CO
2
emissions.
I do not know what the government does not understand about “substantial reductions by 2005”. If we do not do it, the European Union has said, WTO penalties may be brought forward on countries. If it succeeds in doing that, we will be first, saying “pick us, pick us, we ratified, so pick us”. We ratified, so penalize us. Hurt our trade so that we will not have as many jobs and people will not have as much security in their manufacturing jobs. That is the kind of stupidity that the Prime Minister and future prime minister do not seem to understand. There are penalties involved in signing this thing. We cannot just sign it, walk away and forget about it.
Kyoto is critical. Our major trading partner, the U.S., is out. Europe is in but even it is having trouble getting to its targets. It is starting to worry. A meeting was held earlier this year where some countries were told they were going to have real trouble. Britain was told it would have trouble. In fact, in the parliaments of those countries debates were held about getting out of Kyoto. Those are the Europeans who designed this thing and who really do not have hardly any targets compared to ours.
Japan basically has said that it does not want those penalties in there. That was its argument in Marrakesh. It does not want so many harsh penalties in because countries will opt out. Countries will not sign on. Maybe Japan feels so strongly about this because it has the name Kyoto on it.
So as for examining the costs of Kyoto, there is no one estimate. There is nothing in the modelling that will tell us what it is going to cost. The bottom line is that nobody really knows what the cost will be. No one really knows what the target is. No one really knows what the policies are. All those penalties and all those costs will be determined by the targets, industry by industry, and I read out those industries earlier.