Mr. Speaker, I was not going to speak on Bill S-2 today, but in listening to the riveting debate taking place in the chamber in the last hour, I have been motivated to get up and say a few words about this very important bill.
This bill emanating from the Senate is about a treaty with different countries on a very important financial matter, that is, taxation.
First I would like to say a few words about this concept of double taxation. It is incredible to me that we are willing to enter into agreements with other countries to avoid double taxation when double taxation is rampant for our own citizens within our own country.
I could give many examples. The best one, I suppose, is the one of my private member's bill, which I hope will come forward one of these days. In nine years I have never yet been picked in the lottery draw on private members' business, but with the rules being changed hopefully I will get an opportunity to debate it now. It is a double taxation bill because it deals with the fact that every one of us has to pay income tax on money that we earn in order to have money to pay our property taxes. We have to pay taxes on money that we earn solely for the purpose of paying taxes. That is double taxation. I hope I can get a chance sometime soon to have that private member's bill brought forward so that within this country we can avoid the kind of double taxation which Bill S-2 addresses with respect to our citizens who have businesses abroad or some of our citizens who live in other countries who still have business interests back home here.
Another example of double taxation, and really it is triple taxation, is that when we buy fuel we first have to pay income tax on the money we earn so that we have some money in our pocket when we pull up to the service station. Lo and behold, about one-half of the cost of fuel these days is taxation in one form or another if the income tax that the energy companies pay is included. Really, it is a 100% rate of taxation. I pay 30¢ for the actual fuel and the rest of the bill, 30¢, is for taxation at various levels. It is a 100% rate of taxation on gasoline, but when I pay it I am paying it with money on which I have already paid taxes. That is also a form of double taxation.
I could go on. There are many examples of this. Every time I buy something I pay the GST. It does not matter what it is. In Ontario, when I escape from the wonderful province of Alberta, I end up paying not only the federal tax but also the provincial tax, even on a simple thing like a $7 meal at McDonald's. Although I should not admit that I sometimes eat at McDonald's because it gives away my diet plan, I do eat there occasionally. The other day I think it came to about $7 with a tax bill of approximately $2 on it. It was incredible. I still think I got ripped off, but more by the taxman than by the young lady who served me a Big Mac. That is double taxation. That is a very expensive Big Mac, and please do not tell my wife because she thinks I am still on my diet program. That was my one occasion this week when I sort of dropped the ball.
Double taxation is to be avoided on principle, so I support Bill S-2 because it states that people who have business interests in other countries do not have to pay taxes in both countries. There is an agreement made to pay in only one.
One of my colleagues just pointed out to me that when we buy fuel we pay GST on the excise tax. I remember very early on, way back in 1994 in his first budget, that the hon. member now seeking the leadership of his party, and to become the next prime minister, got up and said they were going to increase the taxes on fuel by 1.5¢. I remember saying then that it was not 1.5¢ but actually more. It was really an increase of 1.605¢. When we add the GST to it, there is a tax on a tax. We actually pay GST on the excise tax that we pay when we buy gasoline: absurdity of absurdities. Of course we need to get rid of double taxation. I would like to see us make a treaty with ourselves so that our citizens do not have to pay double taxes. I am looking forward to that.
The other thing that I want to address very briefly is of course this idea of treaty making. Some of my colleagues, especially the member for Edmonton--Strathcona, drew some attention to this. I too think it is totally outrageous.
I scanned Bill S-2 before I got up to speak. I find it interesting that in Bill S-2 there is a whole section for each country with which we are entering into an agreement. It is put out in detail. It is the actual wording of the treaty. I expect we will pass Bill S-2, because I am sure the Liberals will vote for it, I am going to vote for it and I imagine most of my colleagues will. It will most surely pass on the strength of the Canadian Alliance vote in the House today.
It will pass, but what we have is the actual passing of actual wording of treaties right there in the bill. That is what is being passed in the House. We must compare that to what we have been seized with in the last couple of days, this Kyoto affair. What we have there is a simple motion that says “let us ask the government to sign a blank cheque”. There are no details in it. It is just a motion that says we ought to ratify Kyoto.
Why can we not get this lame duck government to bring into the chamber an actual treaty and let us debate it and let us vote on it? Instead, what the government is saying is to give it the authority and it will ratify the treaty and will not bother telling the House any of the details, the costs, the implementation plan or anything, none of that; it is just “let us ratify it”.
I trust my wife a lot. She writes cheques occasionally on our account, but I never ever let her even write a cheque without reporting back to me immediately and usually in advance how much it is for and who it is to. I need to know that.
The Prime Minister and the government are asking us to sign a blank cheque. Then, of course, in the debate a couple of days ago and in some of the challenges, the parliamentary secretary had the audacity to get up and say that it does not really matter if it is not passed by the House, because the government has the right to ratify it anyway.
What kind of a democracy is that? I do not think it is a very good democracy and I would like to see that improved.
With respect to Bill S-2, my comment is simply this. Let us apply at least the same standards to Kyoto that we are applying to Bill S-2. Let us have the treaty. Let us have the voting. Let us have an actual authoritative Parliament ratify the treaty instead of this garbage that we are having to put up with from the other side on the Kyoto treaty.
Mr. Speaker, I will restrain myself. I know I have more time, but I am going to just say that this is enough for this particular occasion.