Debates of Dec. 10th, 2002

Health

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Prime Minister.

Commissioner Romanow talked a lot about accountability and certainly Canadians want to hold their various levels of government, federal and provincial, accountable for how they deal with the Romanow report.

In that spirit of accountability and transparency, I wonder if the Prime Minister could tell us whether he would agree to have the first ministers conference on the Romanow report televised so that all Canadians could see just what he and other levels of government are saying.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am not looking for a show. I am looking for results.

I think the best way to have a very productive first ministers conference is to have it like the one we had in September 2000 where the provinces agreed to make the results of their operations public. We want to improve it to make sure that the Canadian public is aware of the problems and the results of the Canadian system of health that is one of the best in the world.

Firearms Registry

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1991, in the so-called Al-Mashat affair, the precedent was established that a minister of the crown could choose to appear before a standing committee of the House to give testimony regarding events with which that minister had been involved in a previous cabinet portfolio.

My question is for the Minister of Industry. In principle, should an invitation occur, would he agree to follow that precedent and agree to appear before the public accounts committee's investigation of the firearms registry?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it does not take a parliamentary expert to know that is grossly out of order.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if it would not take a parliamentary expert to know that then we have heard from the right person. May I redirect the question to the Prime Minister.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The Chair is having trouble hearing the person who has the floor. Whether it is the right person or not, I am not sure, but I know who I have to hear and it is the right hon. member. I missed a good part of the first question because of something else and I am having trouble hearing because of all the noise in the Chamber. I would appreciate some assistance from hon. members so we can hear the right hon. member for Calgary Centre.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let me redirect my question to the Prime Minister, who does have authority in these matters.

Bearing in mind the Al-Mashat precedent, and in the event that the current Minister of Industry is invited to appear before a public accounts investigation of the firearms registry, would the Prime Minister instruct the minister to appear and to testify?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, first, talking about people who do not know how to count, I remember very well in December 1979 when the leader of the fifth party could not count his own members in the House.

Second, I do not think he would be very keen to re-open the Al-Mashat affair.

Third, I just want to say that the Minister of Justice is handling the file very well. The gun registry program is very important for the Canadian people because of the safety in the cities and in the homes of all the nations. We have had some problems with it and--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Edmonton Southwest.

Kyoto Accord

[James Rajotte, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the auto industry accounts for one in seven jobs in Canada. In Ontario alone these jobs pumped $7.5 billion into the economy last year. Over 90% of GM's Canadian built cars and trucks are shipped to the United States.

The president of GM Canada stated recently that Canada's signing of the Kyoto accord would lead to different vehicle standards with our largest trading partner and that it would make Canadian auto manufacturers uncompetitive. These were his own words.

What precise steps is the government taking to ensure that the auto industry in Ontario will not be devastated by the signing, ratification and implementation of the Kyoto accord?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the state of California, part of the American union, has in fact adopted measures which are quite different from many other states in the union for automobiles.

The concerns of the president of GM Canada are being taken into account. We intend to have conversations with them. There is nothing that suggests that ratification of Kyoto will automatically lead to the situation described by the hon. member.

[James Rajotte, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, they intend to have conversations with them. How reassuring is that?

It is not only the automakers who are worried about Kyoto. The president of Decoma International, a major auto parts manufacturer, has stated that Kyoto would be “one more thing that could potentially prevent car companies from investing in Canada, which will drive parts manufacturing out of Canada. The government's lack of key details on how to meet Kyoto commitments will scare away investment in Canada's auto industry.The government owes it to Canadians to define much more clearly how they plan to implement this”.

When will the government listen to serious industries like that company and finally produce a detailed implementation plan?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, next week in Toronto we will hold the second meeting of the--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order. I realize the Minister of Industry is very popular with the official opposition, but we have to be able to hear what he says.

The minister stood up to give an answer. He has been recognized as the person having the floor. We will want to hear him. I am sure that the opposition members will let up on their cheering for a few minutes so that the hon. minister can give an answer.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, next week we are holding the second meeting of the partnership council in the auto sector, including parts manufacturers, assemblers, the labour unions, the provincial and federal governments.

We are dealing with productivity and competitiveness in the auto sector. As the member knows, some of our assembly plants are among the most productive and competitive in the world and have been acknowledged to be so. Kyoto is on the agenda. Together we will work on a plan that will ensure we will maintain our competitive edge.

Softwood Lumber

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the voters in Lac-Saint-Jean—Saguenay and Berthier—Montcalm sent a clear message yesterday.

Now, it is important not to forget the workers in Saint-Fulgence, for example, who are hard hit by the softwood lumber crisis and who are asking for the government's help.

Will the Minister of Human Resources Development finally agree to extend the employment insurance benefit period for workers caught in the trade war over softwood lumber with the United States, as is the case in Saint-Fulgence, in the Saguenay region?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, the hon. member has given me the opportunity to congratulate our candidates who did so significantly well in the byelections. I also think that may be because the Government of Canada is already working to support Canadians who could be impacted by this trade dispute.

I get the opportunity again to remind the hon. member the Government of Canada already invests through the employment insurance program $450 million a year to workers in the forestry industry. We have identified another $246 million, $70 million of them through my department for assistance to workers in the softwood lumber industry. The province of Quebec receives $600 million every year.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the residents of Saint-Fulgence, like those in many other regions of Quebec, will see their employment insurance benefits run out in March.

Since these workers affected by the softwood lumber crisis will be left with nothing in March, should the government not be a bit more humane and compassionate, and respond to their cry for help?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, our first concern is for the workers in the softwood lumber industry. That is why $246 million has been earmarked specifically for those workers. Whether it be $112 million to support communities to diversify their economies or $70 million for expanded employment insurance provisions, the government is concerned about workers and will be there to support them.

Goods and Services Tax

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Revenue and the former minister of finance cooked the books to effectively hide GST fraud from Parliament and taxpayers.

Now the current Minister of Finance is preaching against unethical conduct and corporate misbehaviour at the same time that his own government has been caught doing backroom deals to hide $1 billion in losses. This is unacceptable.

Does the Minister of National Revenue know how much money has been lost to GST fraud since 1994?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, there is a scam being perpetrated and it is being perpetrated by the member and the leader of his party. They have suggested a cover-up. They have suggested a secret deal. They have said we have broken the law. They have said we disbanded the unit. They have said that there is $1 billion missing.

I say wrong, false, wrong and nuts. That is absolutely not true.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if it is not true then maybe the Liberals should provide evidence to the contrary because they sure have not done it yet.

The total loss of over $1 billion to GST fraud has been hidden from taxpayers and Parliament. The government has an obligation to list GST fraud losses in the public accounts. Once again, Parliament deserves to know.

I ask the minister again, how much money has been lost to GST fraud?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite and his leader should start using their research bureau rather than simply sloppy journalism and believing everything they read in the newspaper.

Here are the facts. Since 1997, CCRA has made 294 convictions for fraud for a total of $25.4 million. I think $25.4 million is a lot of money but it is not $1 billion. Further, there has been $13.3 million in fines and 57 cumulative years in jail.