Mr. Speaker, I want to remind the House of what the member for Winnipeg—Transcona said yesterday in the House. Here is what he said, as recorded on page 2267 of Hansard :
I would want to argue, Mr. Speaker, that the House should be very concerned about what has happened in the other place with respect to Bill C-10.
Bill C-10 was accompanied by a royal recommendation which stated:
Her Excellency the Governor General recommends to the House of Commons the appropriation of public revenue under the circumstances in the manner and for the purposes set out in a measure entitled “An Act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals and firearms) and the Firearms Act”.
On November 20, 2002 the Senate adopteded, on division, the following motion, “That it be an instruction to the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs that it divide Bill C-10, an act to amend the Criminal Code (cruelty to animals and firearms) and the Firearms Act into two bills in order that it may deal separately with the provisions relating to firearms and provisions relating to cruelty to animals”.
The effect of this motion, Mr. Speaker, has been the creation of two new bills in the Senate, Bill C-10A and Bill C-10B.
The member went on to say:
Last night the hon. Speaker of the Senate upheld the reporting back of the...Bill C-10A, ...and the continued examination of Bill C-10B, which now risks being lost in some procedural maze in the Senate.
It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that it is this House that should decide what pieces of legislation are divided up and in what way they are dealt with. I say this without prejudice to the fact that I can quite understand the desire of the Senate to deal with these matters separately. I share... a concern that a lot of members of Parliament have and obviously a lot of senators have with respect to the nature of omnibus legislation.
Nevertheless, it should be up to the House of Commons to do this, because the way in which the Senate has dealt with Bill C-10 has infringed on the financial initiative of the Crown and on the privileges of the House of Commons.
By inventing the new Bill C-10B, I would argue that the Senate has violated our privilege by creating a new bill that requires the expenditure of public funds, which it has no authority to do, procedurally or constitutionally.
Indeed, the new so-called Bill C-10A should really be called Bill S-something or other, because it is not a creation of the House but rather some bill that the Senate invented based on legislation referred to it by the House. Bill C-10A does involve the expenditure of public funds. For example, it creates a position of commissioner appointed by the governor in council.
At a very minimum, given the proclivity of the Minister of Justice's department for omnibus bills, if we allow this to go forward we are only bound to get into this problem again. For example, on yesterday's Order Paper the government gave notice that it intended to introduce a bill: December 3, 2002--The Minister of Justice--Bill entitled “An Act to amend the Criminal Code (protection of children and other vulnerable persons) and the Canada Evidence Act”. We could very well find ourselves here again in six months.
Mr. Speaker, if you are tempted to accept the argument that the Senate has not violated a 'money bill' or toyed with the royal recommendation, which is the right of this House alone, I would like to cite Erskine May, 21st edition, at page 753, which talks about the limitation imposed by the U.K. Parliament Act of 1911 on the role of the House of Lords that debars them from amending or rejecting 'money bills'. Section 6 of the Parliament Act provides that:
...'nothing in this Act shall diminish or qualify the existing rights and privileges of the House of Commons.' This in practice gives the Commons a choice of proceeding upon Lords amendments under their privileges or according to the procedure laid down by the Act, and consequently they are free to consider, and, if they choose, accept amendments made by the Lords to a certified bill.
In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, I appeal to you with the words of hon. Speaker Fraser of July 11, 1988, wherein he cautioned that if it can happen with a government bill:
...the same situation could arise under our reformed rules for a Private Members' Bill. It is in the better interests of this place to request Their Honours in the Senate to first consult with this House before they report to us such unilateral action.
We will leave it in your hands, Mr. Speaker, for a decision. We believe it to be a very important decision.